To ask why the Brits hate apartment-living?

[PaulaLollie]

Hi all, I have been living in the UK for a few years, but I am originally from Europe and I have lived in multiple countries before moving to the UK.

I have never understood why the Brits seem to be so into living in a house vs. living in an apartment.

Where I come from, the wealthy live in huge, renovated, fancy apartments in nice historical buildings, right in the city centre. That is "the dream" for most, if you see what I mean.

In my home country, living in a house most of the times means living in the countryside/ suburbs, which is not what most people aspire to do, if they have the means to live in the city centre. The concept of having a family = living in a house does not really exist.

For example, I come from a comfortable family background, went to private school, and grew up in an apartment. Nearly all my childhood friends did the same. It never crossed my mind that growing up in an apartment was anything less than ideal.

Here in the UK (as widely shown here on Mumsnet) it sounds like the dream is living in a house, while living in an apartment is really not that great if you have an alternative.

Please, British mumsnetters, can you shed some light on this aspect of the British society? I genuinely just don't get it!

Thank you!

Well there are flats and flats! Many modern flats or older property conversions are not really designed for families in the UK, whilst in other countries they are. Years ago, I lived in a Swiss city with a family in an older apartment that had both indoor and outdoor drying space, (with rota for whose had priority on drying space) and several storage spaces for residents. The apartments were 3- 4 bedrooms each and spacious. There was even a spare room (with ensuite) for visitors that could be reserved . So very different to flats in the UK.

I’m a Brit living in the States.

I live in the middle of thousands of our own acres, I have a view of a hundred plus miles in every direction. I can walk naked if I want to our swimming pool. I have a greenhouse, vegetable gardens, fruit trees, huge shade trees, wildlife galore, lovely gazebo in the middle of a one acre lawn, no curtains - don’t need them, jetted bathtubs, AC, my horses close by, my dogs free to run...I could go on.

I laugh at your dream apartment and suspect rural living in your country is pretty rough.

1. location - houses are near the best schools and parks, flats are nears the shops and restaurants which are less relevant to families than to singles
2. city centres are noisy and full of drunks at the weekend
3. more freedom for children to be independent away from traffic of city centre
4. healthier to be away from pollution of city centre
5. go to an old persons house and the interior might well be shabby but the garden will probably be immaculate which shows you their priorities
6. historically high rise flats were social housing, so seen as 2nd class

I remarked to a French woman who lives next door to BiL's place in France how often it's said here that 'in Europe most people rent and aren't bothered about owning their own house.'
'But they are!' she said. 'They are!' (Meaning in France, anyway)

I think things are changing in some countries at least. A Swedish friend's son is on his 3rd house in Stockholm in about 6 years - buys, does up, makes a bit and moves on - with 3 kids. And it's always a house, not a flat.

Unless I have missed it, the OP hasn't posted anything since her initial post.

Makes me wonder why she bothered to ask a question in the first place.

somewhere where you can have other people pissing in the shared stairwell, rubbish thrown all over the bin area and you pay extra for that privilege?

where on earth do you people live? I must have spent more than 10 years in a flat, not once have I witnessed antisocial behaviour!

We hear more noise since we have a house, from the gardens next to us, than we ever did in a flat. It's not a big deal, our neighbours are lovely and not that close to us, but it was quieter to have a flat.

Small example, but we knew when the communal gardener was around whilst we can't guess the time our neighbours will want to mow their lawn.

There are roads where parked cars are vandalised, even if their owners live in a house opposite

An Englishman’s house is his castle OP.

I agree that Europeans in cities generally live in big apartments.

The English preference for houses goes back a long way in history - to the 18c. Notice that central London is full of houses with gardens and garden squares, and many of the modern apartment blocks were built post-war on the site of flattened houses.

The English love their gardens and their animals.

If you look at Bath which was primarily built n the 18c, early 19c - it’s lots and lots of houses. Some very large some very small.

London building in the 19th century - was primarily houses, even terraced houses were preferable to flats - which were mainly tenements for the poorest. Mansion flats didn’t really come unto fashion until Edwardian period.

How is it a flat if it has 4 floors. A wing?

Many flats where I live have two floors. 1990 new build.

There was a block just west of Hyde Park, I think it was a high-rise that was redeveloped, and the lift only stopped every second floor because the other floors were accessed from staircases within each flat.

(While I like my flat for lots of reasons, in general I'm not sure internal staircases are a good idea in flat design, they do use a lot of room.)

OP just to compare like with like, I have a friend in central Stockholm who lives in a beautiful, vast three bed flat with two reception rooms, stunning huge kitchen and bathroom. She and her husband are professionals in the public sector. Very comfortably off, but you know, not mega bucks. Their rent is 20% of their take-home. When she is on maternity leave. Their inlaws live nearby in a similar residence.

The equivalent properties in London would be the 'London pad' of the landed gentry and other international high fliers. Its unlikely to be the only residence of the people living there, and also unlikely to be a primary residence. They are not ever going to be an aspirational possibility for young, families who work in the public sector. Or indeed, normal retirees. So what is the point of trying?

For me it's lack of parking, neighbour problems and lack of outdoor space.

It's common in Edinburgh - some of the most aspirational properties are flats in the city centre (a lot of them Georgian but also lots of newbuilds). We live in a 5 bedroom, 2 bathroom Georgian flat with huge rooms and I love it. We've raised the kids here and had a large dog and a cat (sadly both dead now). We hang our laundry from our 4m high ceilings.

people in cities in the UK often live in apartments too. Its hardly rare.

We lived in a flat when I was very little, and I have fond memories of it. However, this was on an RAF base in Germany, and (according to my parents) the flat was therefore comstructed to German building standards. I was too small to have any memories of the equivalent flat that we lived in while based in the UK, but mum reckons it was awful -built to a much lower standard. While there certainly are luxury flats in the UK, there are some awful high-density buildings which are essentially vertical slums (very sad as of course many were constructed in an effort to improve the slum housing they replaced). This, I think, gives flats an image problem in this country.

I also lived in an apartment in Italy, and again it was a lovely, comfortable place to live. But I just don't think I'd ever find an equivalent in this country, sadly.

I would fucking hate to live in the suburbs,I don’t dream of a garden Or gardening
Maybe it’s the idyll for some,but a Life on an estate in a Cala type house is my idea of hell
I have previously lived in flats in Glasgow,Edinburgh, London and loved it

An Englishman's home is is castle. We are an island nation.....we like to pull up the drawbridge.

HIS castle

I see where you're coming from OP.
But you see, in Europe, for example Paris and Berlin, those apartments were purpose built in the 19th century to house proper-sized families. They were well built with thick walls and plenty of space. Then of course came post-war social housing which is always dire at the best of times (putting on flame-resistant coveralls as I type). Flats in the UK are mostly converted houses (in London) with paper thin walls. Noise is a huge problem here when you live in a flat. Without dragging out my post, basically, flats in England are not and have not been built to the same standards as most European ones.

I've lived in Hamburg, Munich, Zurich, Milan, and Paris where apartments are a pleasure to live in. At least the ones I've lived in were wonderful- both modern and the historical ones. I lived in one that hadn't been updated since the 1930s. It was fabulous. That was my apartment in Montmarte. I hung the laundry on the communal roof terrace or communal courtyard/garden, or indoors, just like I do in my house. My Edwardian house is pokier than my friend's Berlin apartment, if you really look at the size and width of my rooms by comparison.

I am in Ireland similar attitude to house over apartment here. What's different in Ireland and Britain is that our apartments are tiny. No storage space and not built for family living. Also many people I know living in apartments in cities in Europe often have counyry house bolt holes

I grew up in Edinburgh, albeit in a house in the burbs. I have been in several of the New Town flats and some of them are amazing inside with high ceilings, huge rooms and lovely features. Most of them arranged in squares or crescents with private communal gardens in front of them for those in the upper floors and private back gardens for the ground or basements flats.

Expensive but gorgeous.
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54041475.html

would fucking hate to live in the suburbs

The point is that in the UK - houses are common in the centre of cities. Even if they’re carved up into flats now they were built as houses. That is what differentiates UK cities from Europe - houses and gardens are not just found in the suburbs.

I would happily live in an apartment. If there was one available.
Floor to ceiling 19th century windows.

Le balcon.
L'espace!
Le chic!
Where I live, there are flats.
Not the same.
So I live in a house.
Bit shit, really.
I always dreamed of the elegance.

I live in a beautiful flat, with balcony, overlooking a small green square and a park. It’s in a town centre but gated so no through traffic.

I grow plants, have barbecues and sunbathe.

It’s a quiet, well maintained estate, with loads of greenery and birds. I love it.

(Dry my washing on a Lakeland heated thing. Sorted).

Because most flats/apartments here are very small and very expensive. You have to pay through the nose to get anything decent. Having a garden, for me, is "the dream".

British people value privacy a lot more than Europeans I feel. Generally we like to keep ourselves to ourselves. As well as this, standards of flats/apartments in cities in England aren't the same as in most of Europe- they often are smaller and more cramped, and are built for young single professionals rather than families so have less storage and space comes at a huge premium.

I think another factor is that we tend to like to spend a lot of our time at home. The weather is probably a huge factor in this- in European countries where the weather is nicer it seems people spend a lot of time at parks and at the beach, whereas the weather in England is so poor most of the time we like to have a nice cosy home to go home to.

Location has a lot to do with it too- schools in cities are often much poorer than schools in suburban areas, and families tend to want to live near a nice school.

It's interesting to look at the differences. I really can't imagine living in a flat with my family so it's strange to see how common it is in places like Spain etc

Without kids I would happily live in the type of apartment you describe. However with kids, my fairly secluded house with large garden is better. I like my kids to spend as much of the day as possible outdoors, whatever the weather.