To think Dianne Abbott will be just as bad as amber Rudd

[jnfrrss]

If not woorse, they both seem very clueless and it's embarrassing that they hold important positions and shadows.

Incompetent is an understatement

I think the issue is that they want to please everyone but in a very superficial way so they all bend in the wind and pay far too much heed to Twitter (which has very limited reach), think tanks (which all have an agenda and generally pontificate or produce ‘data’ with no thought for implementation) or the far wings of their parties.

Where is the centralist party I need?

Part of the problem is that these days most politicians come from well-off backgrounds. No way someone like John Major would make it to PM now. Much like Trump who claims to really understand the people and be one of them, despite coming from a very rich background, Corbyn pretends to be a man of the people, despite growing up in a mansion and attending private school. He's never known a day's hardship in his life.

That's why he gets off on all this stupid sixth-form posturing - he doesn't understand or care that all this pro-Russia or Stop Some Wars or anti-monarchist stuff he's involved with derails the discussion of the real things that actually matter to Labour voters - the cost of housing, zero hours jobs, etc.

And the same goes for the people behind him like Seumas Milne - all pointless posturing by privately-educated prats.

Oh for a John Smith figure.

Last election there was one of those “Which party are you” quizzes in one of the online broadsheets. I read it out to my MIL who answered all the questions. Her result was 50% UKIP and 50% Tory.

She was furious! The quiz was “rigged by the Tories” apparently 🙄 as she was a Labour supporter, she was “born a Labour voter” and would always “hate the Tories” etc.

She has no idea about party politics. She votes Labour because her dad did and because ”Conservatives are posh gits”. Her views however, whether she likes it or not, are actually anything but.

It's just an extraordinarily well-paid job with amazing perks that we'd all jump at given half a chance.

This is utter nonsense. The basic MP salary is around £80k. That will seem a lot to some but for anyone who is successful in their career it is not a massive wage. And the perks include death / rape threats / racism / ridicule and God help you if you make a mistake or error of judgement, you and your family and your home become national news

Most of the talented people I know / work with earn way more than that and without any of the hassles I described

The people who I rate as visionary leaders, wouldn’t touch being an MP with a barge pole

Part of the problem is that these days most politicians come from well-off backgrounds. No way someone like John Major would make it to PM now

This wouldn’t be the case if the current lab shambles somehow came to power half of them can’t read and write, Corbyn cane from a middle class background and despite going to a top grammar school only managed 2 E’s at A level before dropping out of a trade union course presumably for being too left wing. Rayner left school pregnant at 16.

I think you say ‘most’ When you mean ‘some’. Which has always been the case even more so in the past. Would be interesting to actually see the figures for the current parliament I think you’d be surprised. I’d bet you that the snp, labour and con had large numbers of ordinary people.

Oh for a John Smith figure. I know. Those sensible Scottish MPs gone forever. It makes me greet.

@Samantha77hat
So what if Rayner had a kid at 16? who you to pass judgement? esp stating with such authority 1/2 cant read or write...she studied Sign, was a care worker and would have made a real difference to vulnerable people in society....... tbh you sound a right snob, though i'm sure its just your writing style.

i d rather a Rayner than lying home secretary covering for a PM who introduced policies against the Windrush generation described in one report as on par with those of Nazi German in the 30's, denying travel, healthcare, work and deportation to citizens of this country sounds similar to me.
As for the figures:
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-how-posh-is-parliament

I don't mind amber rudd or Philip Hammond (blushes)
Theresa May is dire and I loathe Boris, hunt and gove. I don't know how anyone can stand them.

I wouldn't describe 'shadow' positions as important - they are just pretending to do a job they don't yet have. Largely pointless.

Mind you, I often think how wierd it would be at work to have someone doing your 'anti' job and basically ripping you to bits!

Both parties are in a mess.

The Conservatives are paralaysed by the practical reality if implementing Brexit.

The Labour Party is paralysed by a leader who has spent 30 years as a back bench MP and sees no reason to take on more responsibility.

Rayner overcame huge obstacles to become an MP. I certainly don’t judge her negatively for leaving school at 16. Whatever her political views, she has had to work harder than many MPs.

Corbyn, on the other hand...

I don't mind Amber Rudd or Boris.

DA sending her kid to private school was something I couldn't get beyond.

I'm a centrist. Would vote New Labour with Cooper Umanna etc. Absolutely despise Corbyn.

Shadow ministers shouldn't be doing a 'pointless' job. They should be holding their opposite number to account. Identifying the weaknesses in the ruling party's policy and asking the questions that expose failures in in performance. We've got the perfect example now, with Windrush.

Diane Abbott made a good summing-up speech, but it's been left to David Lammy to bring the problem to light and Yvette Cooper to skewer Rudd by asking the right questions. When Rudd was called to Parliament to be asked about the targets, which she'd denied existed, all Abbott did was stand up and call for her resignation and sit down again.

I think, with Corbyn as Leader of the Opposition and his shadow cabinet made up of cronies and worshippers, we've forgotten what a shadow cabinet was like in the past. It's meant to be as inclusive as possible, representing a wide spectrum of opinion across the party. Blair's cabinet included MPs like Claire Short, who was much more left-wing than he was. It was all about picking the most talented for the job, not those who'd stick with you through thick and thin and rubber stamp whatever you wanted.

Corbyn started off with more of a mixed bag, but it soon turned out this was a sham. Decisions were made behind the scenes. He turned up with a prepared script and McDonnell did more talking then he did. Hence the mass resignations and vote of No Confidence.

So what if Rayner had a kid at 16? who you to pass judgement?

Oh dear. That’s exactly my point isn’t it, countering the assertion that parliament is full of elite toffs. Thanks for agreeing with me.

That’s exactly my point isn’t it, countering the assertion that parliament is full of elite toffs

Your point was a bit obscured by your claim that half of labour can’t read or write.

Your point was a bit obscured by your claim that half of labour can’t read or write

Seems like you should be counted in that too

You said:

This wouldn’t be the case if the current lab shambles somehow came to power half of them can’t read and write

Labour can't win on this, can they? They're either not ordinary enough, because they come from privileged middle-class backgrounds etc or they're illiterate?

For the record, just over 50% of MPs now have been educated in comprehensive schools. More Labour than Conservative, but Justine Greening went to one. And it is possible to come from an ordinary home and get to Oxbridge, e.g. Angela Eagle and Jo Cox. And just because Angela Rayner left school at 16 doesn't mean she's thick. She's one of the more impressive front-benchers, imo. Admittedly, that's not saying much. But she can make a barn-storming speech and she's her own woman. Doesn't blindly follow Corbyn like most of the rest.

Oh dear. That’s exactly my point isn’t it, countering the assertion that parliament is full of elite toffs. Thanks for agreeing with me

Your point seemed to try and denigrate the pregnant Rayner and that it is only Labour MPs who cannot read or write..... a bold claim and one without even the tiniest slice of evidence lol!

I think anyone half qualified for the job is holding back, because they don't want to be tainted by association with this shower of fools.
That goes for Labour and Conservative.
And who would want the poisoned chalice job of being PM during the pre-Brexit period?
I don't like Teresa May, but I do feel very sorry for her. There's no good way through Brexit, and she knows it, that's why she was a Remainer.
She said at the time that she accepted the position out of a sense of duty , and I can't recall there being any other acceptable candidates.
If she was to resign right now, there's still no-one in the Conservative party who could steer through Brexit effectively.
As for Labour, are they waiting for something to happen to JC with a view to wheeling out Yvette Cooper?
I did hear rumour of Tony Blair starting up a new party.... have no idea if that was based on fact....

Dianne Abbot may be an intelligent woman but she is not a good communicator. She is obviously passionate about her politics. However I would much rather hear Yvette, David Lammy or others as they get their message over without getting lost in emotional incoherence. Sorry but despite being a long term Labour supporter, I am find it challenging to see the positive of Corbyn being at the head.

DA is in the times today moaning that she’s unpopular because she’s female and black

Nah pet, it’s because you’re a total plank.

"DA is in the times today moaning that she’s unpopular because she’s female and black"

By saying that she is judging other people by their colour. NOT acceptable.