To say no to the 6th Harry Potter book...

[TabbyTigger]

DD is 5. She’s just finished the first five Harry Potter books and, obviously, now wants to move onto the 6th. However from what I and other DCs remember, this one has more mature themes (romance/more detailed deaths) and is generally more complex. AIBU to ask her to wait a year or so before reading it or should I let her try and see how she does?

Unless there's an article I'm missing where she's spoken specifically about this, I can't see JKR having an issue with a 5 year old reading and obviously enjoying her books. It wouldn't really fit with everything else I've seen her say about children and reading tbh.

I wouldn't be prepared to take that risk with my own child, no.

Why can't you accept that if someone asks for specific advice, I'm going to argue the general point that applies to the majority and is advised by the experts? If the specific child is not affected (if you're absolutely sure that is... not sure how that's possible) then what's the point of this thread? Is it for the OP and others to seek some sort of validation for their own and their children's early reading capabilities?

When I was a kid, Lion, Witch and Wardrobe was recommended for 5yos,ditto rest of Narnia, despite the death and violence. Charlotte's Web too, I am David (kid escapes from concentration camp), and many more. Protecting children from ideas about death seems quite new.
My ds is 9 now and terrified by pretty much anything, so when playing Harry Potter came in in Y1 he asked if he could read them or see the films. I said he could read the first two if he liked, but he wouldn't like the films (he had to run out of Shaun the Sheep). Gave him a brief rundown of the main characters.
By Y3 many of his friends had read the first 2-3 books or seen the films, and I gave him the first two books. He read a few chapters and lost interest. Now he's halfway through book 4 having read book 2 last week. He's heard pretty much all the spoilers, which I think makes a difference, so I won't stop him reading the rest, but have said they have more people dying and the last two aren't as good, and the bits about girlfriends etc may be boring. And no film, still.
The edited Shakespeare stories out now are brilliant - could have knocked me down with a feather when ds age 9 and 6yo started arguing over their favourite Shakespeare plays! The CBeebies Midsummer Nights Dream and Tempest are amazing, too.

DD sometimes has a nightmare about a trampoline falling apart, and one about having to drive a car. The latter existed before she read Harry Potter, the former I can’t see being related.

Unfortunately, the parents' own desire for the child to enjoy something they themselves hold dear gets in the way of common sense.

I’m not a huge Harry Potter fan, so a I don’t know where that impression sprung up. I read them just before my older DD read them to check they were okay. They weren’t really my cup of tea - I find the style of writing odd and very English.

I think it's wonderful that the OP's child is an avid early reader. I kind of resented the implication that the fact she is one is due to a house full of books and everyone loving reading?

Of course I wasn’t using this as a binary fact! It will be different for all children, but I think, in the case of DD3, it absolutely is because of everyone else in the house. She’s grown up being obsessed with reading “chapter books” because everyone around her does nothing but read.

I wonder what JKR herself has said about an appropriate age to start reading these books? Has anyone already investigated for the thread?

I’ve tried to look into it but haven’t been able to find anything definitive - general consensus seems to be age 7-10.

NotUnbongo she’s year 1, not reception. And honestly, she’s confronted death in real life - I don’t have a problem with her reading about it. Teen angst will just have gone over her head.

And wurlie, if it’s delusional to believe that a text can be enjoyed without being understood in its full then I’m happy to be “delusional”. It’s not a damaging “delusion” and it’s one shared by many.

I don’t think that was supposed to be for me

Maybe not, I’ve had a lot of responses and had to go back a few pages to read them all

Good grief

It's not remarkable that a 5 year old can read HP while others cannot, any more than it is remarkable that some 5 year olds can do cartwheels while others cannot.

Children are not all the same, they have a range of abilities and a range of interests. Sometimes their interest and their ability coincide (e.g., a good reader that really enjoys reading) and then they get really good at something quickly. It doesn't make them a prodigy or a genius or gifted, its just normal variation.

There is a hundred and one things my DD is average at, and a few things that seem to surprise people she can do them at all. It doesn't make her special except to me it makes her completely normal.

She is really crap at cartwheels

Haven’t RTFT but does your DD also have access to books about unicorns, fairies, and Enid Blyton type stories aimed at younger children? Or even David Walliams’ books?
It’s great that your DD reads so well but maybe she’d also enjoy books with more age-appropriate themes.

@MissWilmottsGhost I couldn't agree with you more. But the question being debated is should not can

Serious question. These 5 year olds with advanced comprehension skills and emotional maturity, are they aware of various world events such 9/11, the holocaust, current events? Do they read adult newspapers?

If not, why not?

Wurlie - that’s an interesting question. My 6yo and 4yo don’t have advanced reading skills but they do know about the holocaust and 9/11 because they’ve come up in conversations (sometimes from books - Anne Frank is in the “Great Women who changed the world” picture book) and I’ve tried to explain those events in a way they can start to understand. Sometimes they pick up the free newspaper on the bus and ask questions about the pictures and the words they can read - and again I try to explain it in an age appropriate way. It’s a parenting choice isn’t it? I personally don’t believe in pretending that death and other horrific things don’t happen - I’d prefer to have an age appropriate discussion and help them to try and understand.

If she’s keen then let her read it for some decoding practice and to learn some new words. She won’t understand it all at 5 and nor should she unless she has been exposed to things ahead of her years.
I also had an early word reader. I say word reader because a lot of comprehension comes with life experience. It’s so much more than a case of literal understanding of the meaning of words on a page.
My dd went to school a year early from the attached nursery and would sit in year 1 for phonics when she was 4. She also ‘read’ The Hobbit aged 4. It didn’t do her any harm but I’m sure she got a lot more out of it re-reading it at junior age!

@Wurlie, speaking as one of those five year olds, the answer is no, because I had no interest in world events or atrocities. The books I was reading, I was interested in - I wanted to know about the characters, how they lived, what was happening to them. The six o’clock news was always on in our house but I had no interest in it.

I think there is a big difference between being emotionally literate enough to understand that Meg March is feeling guilty about drinking some champagne and flirting, or Harry Potter’s family are horrible to him, and being confronted with the concept of suicide bombers.

I was a massive Harry Potter fan when they came out - goblet of fire came out when I was 12 and I remember being quite disturbed by the ending. She may be able to read the words but I do think the content is way, way too mature for a 6 year old.

extrastrongmint

I think there is a big difference between being emotionally literate enough to understand that Meg March is feeling guilty about drinking some champagne and flirting, or Harry Potter’s family are horrible to him, and being confronted with the concept of suicide bombers.

I disagree. I think that if a 5yo can genuinely comprehend HP then they are an extraordinary prodigy with a brain beyond their years and as such should have no problem processing the news.

I’d prefer to have an age appropriate discussion and help them to try and understand.

Yes I do agree. DD (7) also has the great women book so knows a little about Anne Frank although she's not aware of 9/11 yet.

But the key is age appropriate. And the later HP books simply aren't for a 5yo.

So I feel it boils down to this - either the parents knows that a lot of the book is going over their head, in which case why not opt for more age appropriate material; or they believe their child does fully understand, in which case why sanitise the news or anything else in age appropriate terms?

So to sum up for the OP; it's too late to worry about the first five books, but as you are having doubts about the sixth, the sensible thing to do is wait until a more appropriate age and you have no remaining doubts. If you're unsure about when that might be, there's lots of helpful info which you no doubt consulted via google before you started this thread! HTH.

Being "an extraordinary prodigy with a brain beyond their years " might mean they can understand what is being portrayed. It doesn't mean they will be able to handle what they have understood. Very gifted kids often have vivid imaginations and strong emotions/anxiety (imaginational/emotional overexcitability).

A possibly relevant example: When very young DS2, who is quite a tough cookie in many respects, used to watch the Tintin cartoons along with DS1 quite happily. Then the penny dropped that the the guys chasing Tintin were actually trying to kill him, and DS2 had the screaming heebie-jeebies and we had to put those off when he was in the room. Certain things only become scary when the underlying theme has been comprehended.
DS1 was a very advanced reader. He could have read HP sooner but I decided to wait until he was 6 before letting him read any of them. Then I gave him the first 3. He devoured them. I've no doubt he fully understood them (which he wouldn't have at just-turned-5, though he could have fully decoded them and stumbled through, and I could have kidded myself if I'd been that way inclined). He then asked for number 4 and I refused. There is a signifcant difference between the first 3 books and the last 4. He is allowed one a year. He still hasn't read 6 and 7. He is not allowed to watch the movies until he has first read the book. I want him to have the pleasure of reading them with full comprehension and suspense. I can't fathom why anyone would want to ruin that. Similarly I haven't given him the His Dark Materials or Earthsea books because I think he'll get far more out of them in a couple of years.
There are hundreds of books which are more age-appropriate, have rich vocabulary, terrific plots and superb inventiveness. And I don't mean the likes of Enid Blyton, whose books were anachronistic even when written. There are enough books by Michael Morpurgo, Chris Riddell, Astrid Lindgren, Eva Ibbotson, Roald Dahl, Edith Nesbitt, Lloyd Alexander and others to keep even the most advanced and voracious 5 and 6 year old reader occupied without moving them on to HP 4-7.

@wurlie But you seem to think there is only comprehending fully and not understanding at all, with no space for enjoyment in the middle. I read Little Women aged 5 as I have said, and certainly did not understand everything. Why was their father away? What was this Civil War? What books did they get under their pillows? What happens in Pilgrims Progress? Some of this I gathered from the context, some I did not. It didn’t stop me enjoying it nor did it mean I was a prodigy.

I read Shakespeare at university. I didn’t understand all of it even then. If I read Hamlet now I bet there would be bits I didn’t understand. Can you really understand the suffering in King Lear if you haven’t experienced suffering yourself? I am sure when I read it aged 19 I was not emotionally literate enough to get all of that. I don’t know if I am now. When should I read it?

Wurlie - we watch Newsround every day with my Year 1s. It's important for them to be aware of world issues.

Really?

You don't think there's significant difference between a children's fantasy novel about wizards and real life scenes of people being blown to bits??

I think you're just being deliberately silly now.

I'm not talking about newsround.

If you’re worried about HP 4+, you might want to be a bit selective about Dahl, Ibbotson and Morpurgo.

Rafa exactly, we agree. Being selective is the key to ensuring a very young child is reading age appropriate material. Not easy in these circumstances, but necessary. Just like you shouldn't let a 5 year old eat a family pack of chocolate. She might be able to stomach it and enjoy the taste, but wouldn't be in her best interests.