To ask why this man seems to hate me so much?

[Art3misZeee]

I need some clarity here. I’m quite introverted and have had a lot of mental health issues, diagnosed with depression, anxiety and MPD but with a lot of help these have been manageable. Finally got myself out on the horse after so many years and back into a nighttime access education course to pursue a career I’ve always wanted.

The course is counselling/psychology. On the first day we were put into ‘peer groups’ groups of 4 who we would do activity work with. From day one this man (he’s gay and always really friendly and funny with everyone else) has made it clear he doesn’t like me. Giving me the cold shoulder, won’t speak to me unless forced, when forced to speak to me won’t look me in the eyes, very dry with me and won’t give me answers if I try to speak to him. It was very awkward but I put it off as everyone being new and still getting to know each other.

It’s been a month and a half now and things might have kicked off tonight before class. We were both early and He was being his normal dry self with me, not looking at me or really answering etc then he complaining about possibly not completing the course, I asked why as he was doing so well. He ignored me, I repeated my ‘why’ and he turned to me, gave me one of the ugliest glares and snapped “I’m not talking about it! I’ve already talked about it with ‘Abby’!” Name of another woman in our group, not her real one btw.

That kind of made me snap. I just felt this horrible bundle of emotion in my chest and I blurted out “Can I ask you something? What’s your problem with me? Why don’t you like me?” He looked shocked and then said something along the lines of “Well, that’s a harsh question...” and I replied with “Not really a yes or no would do.” And he said “Well it’s not a yes or no question.” At that point I just gave up and said “I’ll take that as a yes then.” Which made him look at me with complete disgust and said “We’re in class. I don’t think now is the time.” And turn away.

I genuinely don’t know what I’ve done to this man to be treated like this. I understand not everyone will like or even tolerate me but it’s like this man has gone out of his way to make me feel like dirt. He doesn’t even give me the common courtesy of looking at me when speaking, I feel so tiny when it boils down to speaking in the group.

Can someone tell me if I’ve done something? Or what would you do in this situation? I hate the awkwardness and the lump in my throat this confrontation has caused but it’s made me feel so bad and has started to kill whatever small but if confidence I had left. I also feel like an idiot for my outburst and don’t know what to do about it. Really feel like walking away from the course.

Really, what does it matter if someone on a course likes you or not. It's how you learn to deal with it in the line of work you will pursue if you complete your course and find a job in that field that matters. If you are going to take offence so easily then you are not cut out to be a therapist, I'm afraid.

His being gay could be relevant because he will have experienced more disapproval, trepidation and hostility than most heterosexuals. The OP could remind him of his disapproving aunt Mabel/ bully who made his life miserable etc. That's something he needs to work on in therapy.

Sometimes it is as simple as you being more confident/intelligient/educated/better dressed/weathier/younger/more attractive/confident, than them, take your pick . . ..

Does your course include a Personal Development Group session? Many do. I'd expect this to come up there- not so much in grilling him about why he doesn't like you, but you reflecting on why his apparent opinion of you unsettles you. It's about being congruent and transparent, and showing that you can be self-reflective. If he continues to be obstreperous, then you'll at least have shown you are prepared to be honest and prepared to tackle awkward interpersonal issues in a mature fashion. If he comes back with his own self-reflective insights, then you may be able to come to a mutual understanding. The key is to be open and sincere without being overly-emotional; it will actually help your practice in the long run.

Therapists need to be in therapy during their courses. If you wanted to progress this career you are going to spend a lot more time in therapy, peer supervision, possibly being video recorded and then analysed by a class and having sessions recorded and pulled apart. You will need to be in a strong secure place as is is emotionally challenging.

You haven't done anything wrong. Maybe you remind him of someone or maybe he does it to watch you squirm.
I have seen men do this before and while I do not really get it I see the power dynamic at work.
He is an abusive asshat and there is noting you can do about it.

It's not nice when people don't like you. But you need to leave him alone now. & allow him to leave you alone. He and you aren't the only people on the course why make it all about him?

I find it unnerving that you're both on a counselling/psychology course?!

Anyway avoid him as best you can, and concentrate on the reason you're there -to learn, and study

I don't agree with irrational dislike. There's always a reason, just sometimes we can't put our finger on it.

Doing a course like this you'll likely learn this kind of thing, but even pheromones, body language, facial expressions, tone of voice can be what your brain is subconsciously interpreting to decide if you like someone or not.

So HE may not even know. But yes he should examine why he's behaved as he has.

I hope I've never been as rude as this guy, but I've certainly met people over the years that I've instantly disliked without any OBVIOUS reason to. In all cases it's turned out I've been right not to like them. Either we've discovered a huge discrepancy in values on something or they've then done something dreadful either to me or someone I care about.

I've also had people take instant dislike to me. Can't expect everyone to like you so I don't let it worry me. I'm quite a direct person and some people struggle with that. I've been told more times than is probably good that I can seem "scary" at first. Then when they get to know me they learn I'm soft as marshmallow 😂 The one time I had a problem was someone who WAS lovely and friendly, who upon learning I was bi then decided I fancied her and was trying to convert her! I didn't fancy her and I was never more than normal friendly. Homophobia at the heart of that one. But INSTEAD of talking to me she just took the piss out of my appearance and hobbies 🙄

In your position I would probably

Ask him if the pair of you could please discuss how to handle this personality clash in order it doesn't affect your (both of you) studies.

If he's willing to try and sort things great. Speak with him without attaching blame but calmly explaining why certain behaviour affects you negatively.

If he's not willing and continues being rude raise it again with the course leader with a request that they speak to him letting him know such behaviour is not on. That said she sounds a bit useless.

I agree it sounds like he'd be a shit therapist.

I also wonder if this is the right arena for you. Clientele reject counsellors all the time and can be far more blunt than this guy. I also am diagnosed with multiple mh issues and have sometimes requested a change of cpn or therapist. I don't like wishy-washy types but then I also don't like rigid close minded types. And if you don't click with your therapist it's going to negatively impact the therapy.

Also it sounds like he was venting/having a rant - again something clients will do frequently. Plus projecting, displacing blame... Do you really think you can cope with that?

"I’m afraid going back will be seen as a sign of weakness" that strongly suggests to me you're not ready to do this. Everyone can benefit from therapy at any time to see going back to therapy as a failure is worrying. Most counsellors and other mh workers get regular therapy themselves purely as a part of staying healthy and coping with the understandable weight of dealing with other people's problems.

I think you need to build your confidence and self esteem more.

I think most people are capable of disliking others without being quite so ostentatious about it. He seems to want the whole group to know.

@Art3misZeee, " Our group made a WhatsApp ‘support’ group that he regularly posts in about his problems and not wanting to go to class or continue which is why I didn’t see it as a problem." It sounds like he has his own issues and he is allowing these to affect how he is with you.

Totally agree with @starsandstuff "I know this might seem difficult, but if you're hoping to work as a counsellor these are really the interactions that will be useful to you. Exploring the impact on you of feeling disliked, sitting with those feelings instead of trying to get some kind of concrete answer (from us, who don't know, or from him, and he might not even know!) - these are invaluable experiences in your personal development" The rest of that post is excellent and so true.

You can only manage your own feelings and emotions in this.

Personally, I would be polite, calm and 'professional' with this man. He may even drop out of the course of his own free will. The best thing for you IMHO is that you are just be polite. He has made it clear now that he doesn't really want to talk about the subject but he did bring it up so there is nothing wrong in your asking him.

Does 'going back' mean going back to counselling? I think that is a good idea. I am getting therapy for an eating disorder, it is so helpful.

My therapist says she has a supervisor she goes to so she can get help etc, I think needing therapy, having therapy is very normal for some of us and actually makes us more empathetic.

Good luck.

MovingThisYearHopefully "Funny how most people who are trying to be counsellors are the ones who most need counselling themselves."

I think you have just been unlucky, I;ve had lots of counselling and rarely if ever felt the counselor was doing it for anything other than a job they were good at.

@MovingThisYearHopefully But I agree that counselors do sometimes have supervisors or people they can turn to so that they don't kind of absorb all the problems from their clients. It doesn't mean they are working out their own issues with their clients, or at least they should not!

Maybe he is washing out of the course because it is obvious to the instructor that he is a jerk unsuited for the field.

Clinical supervision is a requirement for registration with any of the reputable therapist organisations. It isn't a weakness it is a professional responsibility.

Italiangreyhound
I’ve had a few counsellors, who needed counselling themselves. Two of them were at mind.

I also think you need to be doing some therapy op. It’s not weak to seek help. It’s the complete opposite and strong. In doing so, you are facing up to your feelings and trying to deal with them. It is very hard to be ones own therapist. Isn’t that what as a counsellor you’d say to a client?

OP, another poster has mentioned projection, and I'm just wondering whether because you're so convinced this man doesn't like you, have you thought about the possibility that subconsciously its actually you who doesn't like him and you're 'switching' it.
This is one aspect of projection

I would follow your instructors advice where I feel they were definitely steering you to move on but not apologise.

I don't think you have done anything wrong, OP. His behaviour is on him and regardless of whether or not he likes you, as an adult he should have the ability to manage his own behaviour in such a way as to not be so obviously hostile to you.

You must not let this man cause you to walk away from the course. You can't let the actions of others rule your choices. Hard as it is, you have to keep reminding yourself that his behaviour is his problem and that it doesn't matter if he likes you or not. In the long term, he's nothing to do with you.

Next class just be your normal self, but don't engage with him beyond what's required for the course. Be polite, but don't make any effort to try and 'fix' things. Accept that he is a temporary annoyance that you won't have to deal with when the course is finished, and that ultimately he's really nothing to do with you.

All you can do is change your behaviour towards him. In your shoes I would be actively disliking him by now. Of course he can't help disliking you but he can treat you with courtesy.

I've experienced irrational dislike for people but there's usually a reason eg they talk too much or stand too close to me or have poor personal hygiene. But I try to push past it and get to know them. I would never be rude or ignore them. In your situation I think I would start provoking him eg addressing him directly in the group 'what do you think of this Jim?' 'How about we ask Jim for his opinion?' 'Jim are you listening, it seems like you're wandering off?' 'Jim I feel like you're being quite rude every time I speak. Have I done something to upset you?' All this in front of your group. Don't let him get away with it. If you have upset him he needs to explain why, if not he needs to be called on his behaviour publicly as it's unacceptable, verging on bullying.

He wants to be star of the group and is bullying you. Are you quite lively and the group leader? I 9now you said introverted but 8f you’re comfortable with the others, perhaps he perceives you as a threat?

It’s shit OP
I have similar with a colleague and it makes working so hard
Can you calmly ask to move group and completely reduce interactions

You will only be with for a finite time period

I don’t know if someone has already said this, but from an external perspective the issue isn’t that he dislikes you, it’s that he is regularly showing this dislike. To all level headed, kind adults who would witness any of this, who will this make look bad? Him not you! However charming or popular he is with the rest of the group, if he’s mean to you purposefully which it sounds like he is, he’s showing an unpleasant side of himself. Don’t waste more energy on him, just be kind to everyone and be yourself and maybe avoid being around him more than necessary or in depth conversations. Then if he does or says something out of line, you can be like X, I know we don’t really click but I’m just trying to get on with things and comments like that make it difficult. Good luck

Maybe he IS attracted to you. I am straight and pretty sure of my sexuality but I've found women attractive. If I were unsure of my sexuality this may have made me uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

Shizzle is very much on to something. As this is an Access course, it's a very open enrolment system.

All the whatsapp messages smack of someone who has joined to seek attention and support for himself. All the 'I don't know if I can carry on' is designed to have his classmates flocking around to boost and encourage him. His motives for joining the course are skewed.

Your only 'fault' if I can even use the word is that you haven't fallen for it, and he knows it. You've then proved it by challenging his behaviour. He's freezing you out because he knows you are a threat to his status as class martyr. I suspect he's scared that you're on to him.

He'll never make it on to the degree. Look at him as a subject for study, you'll be able to draw on this experience further down the line.

You are probably doing better on the course than him and that's why he dislikes you.