To be moody about this

[HoarseMackerel]

My adult son has his own place.
I brought both my children up on my own an we're close but I'm also careful to make sure I am not an annoying mother who calls and texts too much.
I pop in once a week, with him letting me know which day as he has early and late finishes and if convenient.
Sometimes, if he's not sure of his hours, I'll say to text when he knows.
Guaranteed, I won't hear from him. I used to text to remind him but stopped after a while as I felt I was chasing. We make plans for some weekends but I'm never quite sure if he will be there on time or will just generally drag his heels or try and get me to pick him up, even if it's a 20 mile round trip in the wrong direction from where we're going, even though we agreed he'd come on the train and meet at the station. It doesn't cost anymore for the forward journey for a number of destinations, so no loss to him.
Just to mention, I've done everything for my children. Helped and supported them, put them first and always say how proud I am.
My daughter was a victim of a serious crime and even though at times, I've wanted to be a panicky, over protective mother, I've gritted my teeth and made sure I have let them live their lives.
Thursday we went out for a meal (no negotiation over turning up as it was my daughter's birthday), had a lovely time.
He said he'd come over today as he knew my daughter was away but he said he would call/text before to make final plans. We had something in mind.
No call or text. I called last night. No answer. I called this morning. He eventually called me back and said he had stuff to do and I could come to him later if I wanted to. He knows I'm coming over later anyway as I'm meeting friends. So we've gone from day out to come over to me much later as you're around anyway (I'd already told him I would drop him home).
It's every single time! He messes me about, doesn't reply, doesn't answer his phone and if he does call me back, it's to mess me about some more.
His father hasn't bothered with either of the children for years and I know that they deserve better but he's got better, he's got me!
I was angry this morning at yet another let down. I went out for a walk and thought I'll see how I feel and now I feel really down and upset at this happening again.
I should probably give him a taste of his own medicine but with the dismal way his father treated him, I don't like the thought of doing this. A young adult should be able to rely on their mother but he's pushing all my buttons!

He instigates feels obliged to make a token effort because you’re his mum and you’ve made him think he owes you. You have made much of bringing up your children alone: many people do the same.

He knows you have an expectation of seeing him and therefore says what he knows you want to hear. He does not actually want to meet up so frequently.

Giving him a taste of his own medecine by not answering the phone is a good idea, you have clearly made yourself too available to him so now he’s panicking by phoning on the hour every hour.

Stop agreeing to see him so often. Once a month is enough, he clearly can’t really be bothered.

Stop being so derogatory to pp, it will not win you any supporters.

This just comes across as so entitled. You remind him to make plans? You want and expect him to behave in a certain way. He doesn’t have to. He is an adult. It’s not wonder he avoids you because you’re so overbearing. Reading the posts on the first page makes my stomach churn as itntenjnds me so much of my in laws and the nightmare I had with them.

The only thing you want to what and will respond positively to is how unreasonable your son is and poor old you. Everything to the contrary will just be rude, or mean and you’ll play the victim.

It's like the first post.
That's what I'm telling you, not what I've told him.
I've never said 'look at everything I've done for you!'

I'm out - you mad old crone.

I can just imagine the posts from a future DIL on here...

^^ this 😂

I myself have been doing a mad parenting experiment of myself and my DC just openly telling each other when we are pissed off with each other. Why did you do that or what is going on. You don’t say whether you have ever asked him. You don’t say whether he’s maybe met someone new he’s spending more time with, you don’t give any details about him only about yourself. It’s hard to help you

He's got a lovely girlfriend who works mad hours including today, hence the fact that he wanted to meet up as he was at more of a loose end than I was.
I usually make light of it as in 'what are you like?!' But not actually using that expression.
His girlfriend messaged me tonight to say she'd had a massive go at him about asking if I'd go out with him and then not bothering.
She said he'd lazed about and played Xbox.
Another thing I worry about (but don't interfere before anyone reads something that is not there).
I love his gf like she's my own but I think he doesn't show her consideration sometimes. She's very caring.
I just said she shouldn't apologise for him but didn't get into the fact I was getting fed up with it.
We then chit chatted about other things.
The reason I didn't give much detail about him was because there's nothing remarkable or anything he does that stops him making a bit of an effort.
If I had to say something about him, I'd say he is a lovely lad and always makes me laugh and we have no issues talking or getting on when we are together. I feel he does value that he has got me to support him at times.
I'm not questioning that.
It's just the last minute let downs.

Ps. Girlfriend is not new.

I have read your thread and feel really sad for you.
I don't think you seem unreasonable at all.
If a friend treated you like this people would say it was horrible.
I would be honest and just say you were disappointed but understand he is busy. And he does have to arrange meeting out of sympathy.

It's seems like if plans were less frequent but it was guaranteed he would make that time it would work better.
You could do family dinner the first week of every month with your daughter and son together.
It's so hard to find the balance but I feel for you.
I hope you find something that's works for you all

Thank you.
That's the problem. As an adult, if someone says they would like to meet and do whatever, it would be believable that they'd turn up, regardless of whether they were family, friend or even a business meeting.
Obviously, if they were never turning up, you'd get cross and probably not bother again.
I could not bother but I'd mainly think 'well, tough luck! Friendship or whatever over!'
I don't feel comfortable doing that with my own child.
It's a different situation.

Another thing I probably didn't explain. My son lives in the town I work and doesn't drive, so it is easier for me to pop in when invited, rather than go home and expect him to take the bus/train later. It's convenient for him and much cheaper hence the fact he invites me (if he's not messing me about).

You have not given any overview of your son before - so all we had to go on was a blurry angry picture from you, the wronged mother.

If you think your son is lazy and inconsiderate then you can tell him that although I don’t think it will benefit your relationship but neither will letting it fester. He does sound like he’s not particularly considerate and that could be for multiple reasons.

You cannot compare your child to a partner or a friend as they are neither of those things - you choose friends and you choose partners. They are a child and you will often see the worst parts of their personality that you don’t like and annoy you and vice versa. You are a right confusing picture, you are ok with going in on us lot calling us thick and stupid but are you afraid of saying anything honest to your own son? Perhaps you need to stop tiptoeing around him with politeness and be more upfront with him when it bothers you directly and then perhaps he will also do the same in return and be honest and say I don’t feel like it today because I want to play Xbox, and as he’s an adult now it’s not for you to frown upon how he chooses to spend his own time either

I pop in once a week...

That would drive me mad. Can you cut it down to once a month/2 months?

I would like to preface this reply with the comment that I am not stupid, have read everything, and am not making up my own version of events.

This would annoy me intensely. It's not good manners to mess someone around like this and I doubt he would get away with it if he consistently treated his friends the same way. He won't change until he matures or gets called out on it though. He sounds lazy and conflict averse, knowing you like to spend time with him (perhaps he feels he should because dd/a dp aren't around a lot?) he will make the offer to meet up, but when it comes round, prefers doing other things or just can't be bothered. You've accepted this so far, so he doesn't think it bothers you that much based on your response.
His gf has it right. He's a lazy, immature young man, you need to tell him it's not acceptable, and come to some common agreement that he will be able to stick to. Maybe this means one set dinner per month, maybe you leave it until he can be arsed to make the effort. Don't offer to run around giving him lifts. If he really wanted to be there he'd be able to get himself there by public transport. Sadly, I really do think he's passively demonstrating he's not wanting to spend as much time with you.

you sound JUST like my mother who is a prime example of a narcissistic martyr!

She also says things like "I don't expect..." (She does) "I never said..." (Said it indirectly) "I don't know why you think that..." (Because of how she acts.

You're suffocating the guy! Sounds like he has a full on job, a gf and is also expected to be duty bound to spend time with you AT LEAST once a week (though it sounds closer to 2/3)

He's NOT your partner (that's actually really disturbing you made that comparison) nor your friend. He's a young man with HIS OWN life that you seem determined to commandeer.

Back off - or you will find him choosing low/no contact in the near future, do you want to see him married? Any grandchildren through him? Because the way you're carrying on you're reducing your chances of that.

I suspect the gf is switched on and knows if you're pissed off with him he'll get earache which won't put him in the best of moods.

Yes within a normal healthy relationship people let others know if plans change etc - this is not the case here.

Leave him the hell alone! (Oh and I'm betting your daughter is golden child too).

"Sadly, I really do think he's passively demonstrating he's not wanting to spend as much time with you" only part of that post I agree with.

I suspect he's doing this because - well look at how op reacts when she hears something she doesn't want to! Throws a tantrum like a petulant child!

I suspect if he had contacted her to cancel the plans - whatever the reason - op would be furious and son would have got a right load of vitriol.

As mners we see this from the child's perspective ALL the time (usually via DIL) "he won't tell her cos she'll kick off".

"Sadly, I really do think he's passively demonstrating he's not wanting to spend as much time with you" only part of that post I agree with

Really? You don't think it's bad manners to constantly make plans then fail to turn up? I'm shocked 😲

At what appears to be the significant risk of being flamed... YAB(a bit)U

My ex was raised by her mother & grandparents, met her father (an asshole) once or twice as a teen.

Kids raised in that environment often feel both very protective, and a heightened sense of obligation to their parent.

Assuming he's still a young man, his regular instigation of doing stuff together probably stems from that to an extent... In my 20s I frequently didn't see my parents for months when I was living away, weeks sometimes when living round the corner. That's quite normal and part of forging your own identity for many young adults. We always talked on the phone a couple of times a week if not in direct contact. The fact he instigates, then is half hearted or does not always follow through with it is indicative of a conflict between what he feels he should do, and following what is a normal life for many young adults.

You need to find a bit of empathy for what the nature of his upbringing has left him feeling. If you were still with his Dad, you'd probably just see less of him at this stage of life, and wouldn't have this issue.

Take the initiative yourself once every 3-4 weeks and don't accept every suggestion or invite from him - the unspoken implication of doing so is that you are waiting on it, and he doesn't do enough, which is probably exacerbating things if that's how it is.

My Mum died suddenly couple of years ago. I'm delighted when I suggest doing something to my Dad and he is busy - because it means he's busy. His wellbeing is my primary concern above spending maximum time with him, if he's lonely of course I want to make more time for him, he's my Dad.

I think people are being unnecessarily rude to you. I was a bit of a twat to my mum when I was younger, we’re not even that close, and even I didn’t expect what your son seems to expect, and I certainly never made plans then didn’t turn up.

My husband has his own life, lots of friends and hobbies, but he texts/calls his parents every day. If he doesn’t, they worry about him. He is really grateful for everything they’ve done for him and he is mature enough to be able to show that (and has done so since he was 18 or whenever he first left their home.)

I’d be disappointed if I were you too.

How old is DS? In my experience a large proportion of males from teenage to approximately 30 (and over the last decade or so, even older), unless they are handling responsibility like family & DC etc, are a bog-standard-slightly-crappy-self-absorbed-man. We need a good acronym for that...

No wonder you’re a Hoarse Mackerel shouting at everyone

You have come across a bit aggressive shouting at people and calling posters stupid. Perhaps you are this aggressive in rl and that makes the people around you tread on eggs shells and make arrangements out of obligation.

I’d step back from your son.

Young people, and in my experience young men especially, can be very self-centred, especially when they've had mothers who have 'done everything' for them. If you've taught them that they are the centre of your universe and possibly the centre of the universe, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise that they think the whole world revolves around them.

Hi,
I have read your posts but not everyone else's due to time.

Most of them don't understand because they are the child!

I am in the same situation. I have backed off and unfortunately haven't seen much of them. DD lives away and I saw her at Christmas. She made arrangements by text and on the phone and because I hadn't booked a hotel Immediately I discovered she was still at home. I thought she was going to stay with Uni friend for two nights then meet me and we would have two nights. Trying to save her money and travelling I made arrangements which she then broke.
Sons. I backed off and can't make arrangements because they work shifts and I don't know what they are. I didn't see DS 1 for 6 weeks. DS2 has been in touch because he needed help. Needed to be in for plumber, check house when he was on holiday and other arrangements so we have been invited there a few times. He has also taken me out for two meals( one B'day) and called around twice unexpectedly. DS 3 doesn't drive and no transport to here. I have seen him once since Christmas. Had phone call on Mother's Day and B'day.
I know they are busy with there own lives but occasionally seem put out if I don't fall in with sudden plans because I am just getting on with my life.
I get you. I miss them. I would like to see more of them. I haven't been very well at times and DS1 found it inconvenient to pick me up from hospital when I asked for help. I went in an ambulance so I had no car. In future I will be taking a taxi which is about £20. While feeling a bit down I wondered if they would regret this if I wasn't here.
I think some people on Mumsnet fail to read OPs posts ( not just yours) and some will be ' those' children. I wonder if they will feel differently when their own children grow up and perhaps treat them the same way. Or their parents are no longer there. I regret not speaking to my mum more. I did visit yearly she lived in another country a long way from me and very costly to go.

To those that I did read. Does it occur to you that OP has done a lot for her son, possibly sacrificed things in her life for him but that doesnt have anything to do with it? She loves him. She likes to see him. She is upset he makes arrangements then breaks them( would he treat his friends that way) which is upsetting and no doubt at times frustrating.

OP I don't have the answer but backing off hasn't really worked for me but I would give it a try for a couple of weeks. I wonder if you cancelled arrangements suddenly he would realise. I hope you have more success. By the way mine only live 5/6 miles away. DD other end of the country. Hope it works out.