To ask NRP to increase CMS payment?

[StarlaPriest]

Hi everyone,

My ex and i have been separated coming up 8 years now. He's always made token payments for our 3 children, and when he got a better job 3ish years increased his payments to £200.00 a month. I received a letter from the CMS after a review of our case and they stated he should have been paying a fair bit more than twice that much going by his income and i could apply for arrears if i wanted. I chose not to, because i didn't want to rock the boat with my ex, preferring him to have a relationship with his kids despite my struggles. He very begrudgingly raised the amount a little bit but nowhere near the amount he should be paying. He's since then taken on a different shift pattern and sees the kids around once a month for one night, and has them for a weekend approx every 6 weeks. He says that these factors where he provides things for them his end should be taken into account and that he doesnt owe me what they are saying.

This year i have received another letter saying that his income is higher than last year and the amount he should pay has been raised again, however he keeps insisting that he cannot afford to pay any more. I have asked him to re-read the letter, and consider things from my point of view and get back to me. He's responded that he would be unable to pay his rent and get to work if he paid me the amount stated, which according to the income detailed in the letter is about half a weeks wage.

He lives with his partner, they both work and have no children to take care of their end.

I don't have much money of my own, my partner and i are building up our own business and we have one child together. I feel my partner puts so much into raising my older three when their own dad puts in the bare minimum and it is unfair.

I've given my ex one more opportunity to look at things again and stated that i wish he would look at it realistically as i don't wish to involve the cms any further. They would take whatever he is due to pay and the possibly the arrears from not paying the full amount for the past few years on top of the collection fees they now charge. I've no desire to bankrupt my ex so i've tried so hard to be fair, i really want to maintain a good relationship with him for the kids sake but i feel something has to give here.

Does anyone know what sort of effect cms payments have on the paying parent? Would it really leave them out of pocket? I know that they calculate the amount before tax deducted so i've always accepted less from him to account for this, but is this fair on me and the kids? Would i be being unreasonable to just let the CMS have at it?

Thank you if you've read this far x

I've offered to accept direct payment from him for the full amount due to save him the charges of going through them as they add on 20%, however i've just had more rubbish thrown at me and claims of me ruining his life, which cements in my mind that he's not willing to accept a fair solution and doesn't want to work with me, he just wants to wear me down until i relent, which is having the opposite effect the more i hear tbh.

Hmm... I would think carefully before agreeing to DD payments. The benefit to the CMS is that he can't faff around about not paying you one month, or delaying payment or whatever. You can (hopefully) disengage and not think about it at all.

That was half of the point to do it through them in the first place, it's all such hard work with him but he's kicked up such a fuss i was trying to be reasonable without backing down if that makes sense. He hasn't accepted it anyway so i'll leave things as they are.

That's why we don't mind them coming out his wages now. They take it before we get the rest so we don't need to think about it.

I'm just annoyed it got to that stage even though he explained about work etc. But hey ho. He pays so all good.

19% for three children ? That’s appalling it should be at least 50%

The dad still needs to have a roof over his head so 19% sounds about fair, he is supposed to have a home that can accommodate his children and that costs money. In this case I'm not sure I would be able to hold back on him paying more for his car than for his kids and throwing it in his face!

OP, the CMS takes account of the time he has the D+ so he can’t pay less for having them.

His finances are not your problem. He needs to allow for paying for his DC. If he is spending beyond his means it’s not your problem. He needs to live according to his outgoings which include DC.

Op you’ve been more than reasonable. He is showing just how much he cares about his dc. Do what The Myth said, he’ll soon change his tune.

I find it inconvenient to pay for my children, they’re such a drain on resources

Glad you’re standing up for you and your children. He would like you and DP to continue to subsidise his lifestyle. If you are managing financially at the moment, I suggest you save the difference (for you, not for the children) so that you have a bit of cushion for emergencies.

If he doesn’t like the CMS rates he should go and see his MP.

Op

This is a no brainier. Hit him where it hurts! Then treat yourself and the children!

Please don't let him talk you into direct payment, or refusing back payments. £200 a month for 3 kids is a pittance if he's earning reasonable money. You should absolutely pursue for backdated payments, think about all the things your kids have missed out on and use it to fund some of them...

Just to give an example of how it should really work:

Maintenance paid about 30% over CMS guidelines
Childcare paid for
Regular clubs paid for
Child ISA paid for
Holidays contributed to
Normal stuff like clothes/toys etc contributed to
This is for a 4/3 split, by the way

This is what your ex should be doing to provide for his children and make sure they grow up happy and healthy. The CSA has to exist because without enforcement even the minimum isn't given, like in your case. Don't give in to his bullying or sob stories, make life better for your kids.

I may have missed this in your posts, but has your children’s contact with your Ex been formally set up through solicitors or is it an arrangement you came up with yourself?

There is no formal arrangement, he basically tells me when he is available and willing to have the kids and we go from there. I feel like i've done more than my fair share and sacrificed so much in order to keep their relationship with him intact, and for him to tell me that i've ruined his chance at being a good dad now because he will have to work every available hour to pay me their maintenance is such a kick in the teeth.

OP - he can say what he likes, but if he's unable to afford to pay to support his children them it's his problem, not yours. He either needs to cut his lifestyle according to budget, or find a higher paying job.
Not RTFT yet, so don't know if anyone has said this yet - he says that paying a fair amount will leave him "out of pocket". Presumably paying for the DC also leaves you out of pocket? Im sure you could auch better lifestyle if you didnt have to pay more than a token amount each month. However you do it anyway because they're you're children and need supporting financially.

Don't let him guilt trip you, or make you feel like the bad guy.

It isn't relevant how much you earn tbh. He should be properly paying for his kids.
The CMS amount is the basic minimum and is very low. He should at least be paying that including the arrears.
He just doesn't want to pay it. He can afford it but wants to spend it on himself not his children.
It would benefit your children to have more income in their main residence. It was help facilitate them having a more comfortable and fulfilling life.

Also it's not your job to sacrifice and pander to him just so he will see them. That's not beneficial to them or you.
He should want to see and take care of his children. If he won't see them because you want him to pay for them and is willing to punish you/then for this then seeing them won't be good anyway. He's not going to be a good influence.

i feel that for once, finally im standing up for myself against him
No, you're standing up for YOUR KIDS against him. Remind yourself of that if you're tempted to back down. You owe it to them to make sure they receive the full amount of support from their father that they're entitled to. The fact that he does not want to pay that amount is irrelevant - your kids deserve it and are legally entitled to it. The CMS would certainly not require him to pay more than a reasonable percentage of his income. If he can't afford it that's because he's been living the high life instead of providing for his kids, and you should absolutely not permit that to continue.

I realise that by being flexible with your ex you’re hoping that your kids will still have a good relationship with their dad but maybe it’s time to put in a more formal arrangement.
Like other posters have said, if he starts refusing to have them on overnights etc, it can affect how much he pays. Plus there will be a set routine for the children and you won’t all be at his beck and call.
I’m sorry he’s being an arsehole about all of this Try and keep strong against him because you are doing nothing wrong by getting him to pay his fair share

"i've ruined his chance at being a good dad now because he will have to work every available hour to pay me their maintenance is such a kick in the teeth."

LIE. He may need to work every available hour to pay for his fancy car, nice house and fun lifestyle. But providing for his children comes before that, not after.

Well done op for sticking to your guns.

The CMS usually give him a chance direct payment despite what you want. They did with my Ex despite them saying he is unlikely to pay.

I would simply not discuss it now. Him not seeing the kids is all part of proving he is the victim..Don't buy into it. Simply tell him let me know when you want to see the children. Any finance say it is no longer something I discuss talk to CMS.. He may have to giggle his money around he has been living as a man with no children for a long time..That is not your problem.

Do remember this money is for the benefit of your children.

You are doing so well with this - keep going. It's hard work but it will be worth it.

Please stop considering how it affects him. His behaviour indicates he doesn't deserve your consideration, or the energy you put into giving it. He has demonstated that the level of consideration he shows towards his own children is zero. Take that as your baseline towards him.

Once the dust has settled from this, think about putting a plan in place for contact - random contact is not good for children and it's a way of him continuing to control you and keep you off balance.

Decide what reasonably works for your family and put it to him in writing. He can either accept, negotiate or refuse, thus take you to court for a formal order.

You're trying to be reasonable with an unreasonable person. It can't be done.

You are doing so well with this - keep going. It's hard work but it will be worth it

Thank you. I am finding it really difficult tbh but i'm just going to see it through now. The dust will settle and once it does, things will be so much easier for me on my end. I've stopped asking about when he will see the children. I won't be held hostage t him and his whims any further.

I got quite upset this morning to see that he's advertising his personal belongings on facebook and sharing adverts of awful crappy flats and houses making jokes about them.I know hes just waiting for someone to ask 'Are you moving' etc so he can spill his guts and bad mouth me.

Every action taken so far has done nothing but strengthen my resolve though, it's always been like this with him and i'm not going to allow it anymore. I am a bit shocked though that it's gone this far, it's all very dramatic and juvenile!

As for the social media thing, that's upset me because i know the children will see it and i don't know what he's going to tell them.

Why are you still on his SM? It's another open door for him to control you through. Slam that door shut.

I think you should have problems with your WiFi for a day or two, protect the children from his attempts to maipulate them, he is using them to punish you.