To think that Brownies should admit children fairly?

[lyracostello]

I live in a small Home Counties town that people move to from London to raise their kids. We moved here 4 years ago and I put my dds names down for Brownies. Dd turned 7 over the Easter holidays, and I was hoping that she would be able to start Brownies, but she hasn’t been offered a place yet.

Yesterday I asked a few other mums in DD’s class whether their daughters were starting Brownies, and one of them said yes. I asked her how long ago she’d put her DD’s name down and she said 2 years ago! So my daughter should have been higher up the list than hers.

When I pointed this out to her, and asked how it was possible, she reluctantly said she was friends with and had gone to school and church with the woman who is Tawny Owl, and they go to the same church still, and the Tawny Owl had made sure her dd got a place. She said it was really important to her that her dd was a member of that brownie pack as she had been a member when she was a child.

I spoke to a few other mothers and they said that the brownie pack seems to largely ignore the order on the waiting list, and gives out places based on whether you go to the Anglican Church (that the leader goes to and where the Brownies meet) and if your parents grew up in the town, as most of the leaders did.

AIBU to think this is completely wrong? The Brownies are a public organisation, they shouldn’t have such an unfair, discriminatory system. Children whose families are from the town, or who go to the church, should not have priority over children whose families have just moved here and don’t go to that church.

The problem with volunteering, whether it's for the school, sports club, brownies; is that only the busiest people (mums!) are asked. I had aeons of spare time in my twenties but didn't really know that these organisations are crying out for volunteers.
I wonder if students could be more encouraged to volunteer, with employers looking down favourably on it on a cv.

I suspect the girlguiding UK would take a dim view of this practice.

No, it's encouraged as they're so desperately short of leaders and it's a good incentive.

Of course leader's daughter will get priority. The extra adult increases the ratios. Currently you can have 8 brownies to 1 leader. It doesn't take much to see that extra hands make extra spaces.

This sort of begrudging attitude is why there is a huge shortage of units. Yes many mums will move on as their girls do but I know many who have continued on for years after their girls have left GG.

Although I speak from Scouts, the issue is the same.
Not enough volunteers. There is masses of 'stuff' that needs doing for even a relatively quiet 'night in' colouring.
Having ALL parents forced to do at least 2 or 3 evening's help a year would in some ways help the group although a PITA having to do CRB or whatever it's new name is although saying that if a parent came in to do an activity, say pancake making they would nominally be supervised by the leaders and OK as long as they are 'shadowed' all the time on premises.
Having your child in a group is not a problem, you simply are not with them for most of the time. I was in a Scout group with many parent helpers to bring in when needed. The adults get to do the fun stuff too, just a bit more responsibility. From what I see many Scouts stay Scouts until they drop. A lady helps run the shop and she is in her 90's I think.
@Gazelda, I can't imagine any leader refusing assistance with admin!

What, they think excluding kids on grounds of faith is to be encouraged?

Giving preference by faith is worrying. Op has made it very clear preference is church based not who volunteers.

But this preference by faith might actually be part of a sponsorship agreement that ultimately benefits the Brownie pack, as ours benefits my Rainbow unit. Not having to pay rent for the hall we meet in means I can offer Rainbows for £25/term rather than the £40+ I'd have to charge otherwise. We take girls from a mix of areas, that include some that have high rates of deprivation (top 10% in the country) so keeping costs low is key for us.

(I also give preference to girls whose parents will volunteer, I am the only leader at my unit and it's hard work running single-handedly.)

speakout

I am that leader. 100% only did it to get my daughter in. I enjoyed doing it, and got a lot back. But never would have done it without an incentive. And as pp pointed out. If I volunteer and dd dint get a place, what the hell would she do while I was out leading?

Op made it clear it was down to faith as selection with Tawny Owl ensuring kids who go to the church getting places.

If that is how the association select they need to be honest and not infer they're inclusive of all faiths.

@Gazelda

Gift Aid. If your DD's Unit doesn't already do it (& you're in an area where it's appropriate to set it up; there are some Units where there won't be any/more than a couple of parents who can sign up), offering to set up & administer Gift Aid for the Unit is the sort of thing any Leader would love.

Has there been any mention of a Unit residential event this summer? If so & you'd be able to go, either for the day or to stay; drop your DD's Leader an email to offer to help - camps & holidays are fun & rewarding but they are also absolutely exhausting & additional adult help is a blessing. (If you'd be staying you'd need a DBS check. Even if you have them coming out of your ears already, yes.)

If you're in SE London & she doesn't get back to you I have some VERY lovely Brownies who need more adults. WE'D appreciate you...

Girlguiding is multi-faith, they removed the reference to God/gods in 2013.

Incidentally, I set up a Rainbow group completely from scratch 18 months ago with a couple of friends and it really was not that difficult. Our waiting list is huge. We try and do a really varied programme with the girls- stuff that they wouldn't maybe do otherwise. This term we have a yoga teacher and a cricket session, treasure hunts, sports day, science day, a sleepover, camp fires........

I;d be really happy to help anyone who would like to set up a new group in their area - doing it with some friends is easier, there are a lot of grants available too.

Please PM me if I can help

Have you emailed the membership person and asked where she is on the list? She could have accidentally fallen off or admin error not put her on. If you have an email with prove of when you applied then you can proof where she should be on the list.

If you message the organisation your child will get shifted up the list. That worked for me anyhow.

jedenfalls I have been part of Guiding as an adult for 22 years and I would say I have met loads of members who are part of it not for the reasons you give, some may have started to help out a daughter get a place but are still doing 20 years later - one has just got her 20 year service and daughter has left university.

I would say 60% of the leaders I have met do it for themselves nothing else.

Girls of leaders do get priority - pretty much the only perk of the job and I will have done 25 years service before my daughter gets a benefit! My son will get no benefit as our local scouts do not count being a guide leader. His name was down at 6 days old!

Not all can volunteer weekly, but showing some support goes a long way.

Normally I come on to defend guiding but this list does sound a bit off - as others have suggested, ask where you are on it and what the method used is to get people in.

Round here if you want to get your DD into Brownies on the basis of having a parent as volunteer, you need to demonstrate commitment first - and just offering to help the odd week won't be considered good enough either, you'll need to be working towards the adult leadership qualification.

Sadly, we had far too many parents who presented as really enthusiastic volunteers, only to give up once their DC were securely in the unit.

There are guidelines for running lists, but leaders are allowed to use their own discretion. I used to run a unit where virtually all the Brownie places went to ex-Rainbows, but the only way to get into Rainbows was have your name on the waiting list prior to age 3.

Official guidelines said I had to take a 9 year old who'd been on the list for a month ahead a 7 year old who'd been on the list for 4 years. Official guidelines also said Rainbows took priority but I sometimes made ex-Rainbows wait a term to enable me to take a 9 year old who'd been on the list for ages.

Unfortunately no situation is cut and dried.

Gazelda Do you know what I would love for someone to do for us in our unit sometime - the shopping! if you could be given a list of the stuff we needed for a weeks activities, and turn up with it I would love you forever. Even once or twice a year.

Either me or my other leader end up running ourselves around to try and grab stuff, she works full time commuting to London with two school aged children, I work part time in a mad job with no chance to shop at lunch, plus tutoring after work, with two small children not at school.

I can’t believe people need to put kids’ names down 4 years in advance for bloody Brownies

I would find her something else to do, in my experience the cliquey aspects of Brownies will never change and then you have all the parental/leadership politics to deal with.

Sorry but that's the small town way. Perhaps you need to get to know more people by helping out.....

Beans - my friend remembered to do brownies at birth, and forgot to do her school place for her dd.

I can’t believe people need to put kids’ names down 4 years in advance for bloody Brownies

We've got 6 month old babies on our Beaver waiting list!

titchy my son went down at 6 days - I was only that efficient as I had to sort out my guide waiting list at that time and it reminded me so I sent off the email!

Was a bit slower with daughter she was on Rainbow list at 2 weeks!

Not having to pay rent for the hall we meet in means I can offer Rainbows for £25/term rather than the £40+ I'd have to charge otherwise.

That sounds a lot. Most units around here charge £2.50 a week, and pay the girls capitation out of that.

It's a church organisation. If you don't go to church you're unlikely to be offered a limited place.

I left Brownies after standing on a table and screaming "there is no god!!" when I was being pushed to go to Guides.

There are better activitiea your child could be doing I promise.

There's some really amazing girlguiding units out there, there's also some really shoddy run ones too.

Like how there's some really good state schools, and some how I wouldn't send a 'flea' to.

There's some fab leaders out there, but also some who shouldn't be in charge.

Just like everything in life, its down to the individuals not the organisation. Guiding is an organisation that provided me skills and experiences that I will ever be thankful for. There's still some wonderful leaders, units and divisions that any girl should be privileged to be apart of. GirlGuiding as a whole is striving for the future and an organisation that we should be to see the best instead of always finding faults.