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Original poster

Poor Stephen Lawrence

136 replies

Merryoldgoat · 17/04/2018 23:54

I’m watching the Stephen Lawrence documentary. I’m only about half an hour in and I can’t bear it.

I just think about my boys upstairs and can’t imagine how his parents and his friend must feel.

It’s just so awful.

OP posts:
SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 20:50

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OldBean2 · 28/04/2018 20:54

Actually Michael Manson was able to enter the tapes into evidence in the final trial which went to show their racism and that they went out "tooled" up together with the rather unusual manner in which the machete was wielded.

Sadly much of the distrust of the Police was not helped by the investigation of the New Cross fire in 1981, let alone the corruption which was running through the investigation.

I think what shocked me most was the Officer from the original investigation who attacked Baroness Lawrence and the defence team. His lack of self reflection was truly shocking.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 20:55

Andrew they were suspects and had links to other stabbings and attacks.

Clifford norris was eventually found with a submachine gun. He has been linked to the underworld and killings for decades! He approached witnesses whilst on the run.

He was oozing cash to pay people off..

He has local and family gang. People were terrified of him

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 20:59

All I know is something has gone wrong with the police.. Maybe it was never right...but this repeating... Names are not enough we need evidence... Makes me feel queasy. Disgraceful.

How can we attract bright people into the force.

I know two people who are detectives... Neither would I pay to be a private eye for me!!

Queenoftheblitz · 28/04/2018 21:01

Andrew i do understand. The police wanted to tape a confession of murder. They didn't get it because police tipped off Norriss about the bugging.
And I agree - what we say in our own homes shoildn't be illegal unless it's plotting to commit a crime.

JediJim · 28/04/2018 21:12

Queenoftheblitz that’s intersting regarding the Norris’s being tipped off about the surveillance tapes? But even so, why did they use racist language and act out stabbings if they knew they were being filmed? That wouldn’t make a lot of sense, unless they were taking the absolute piss( which is likely to be fair)
Even after the years that followed on from the Lawrence murder, some of the gang have committed further offences. Including Neil Acourt and Gary Dobson. In fact Dobson was already in jail when he was charged with Stephen Lawrence’s murder.
They hardly kept a low profile did they?! I think some of them even still live locally.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 21:16

Smith was killed, white, no one charged with the murder. Norris involved.. Smith sister said.. Had the police gone after smiths killers.. Ie Lawrence killers in the first place... Doreen wouldn't have lost her son.

It's the police!! Same as Rotherham etc... Useless, bribed, maybe just thick??

Queenoftheblitz · 28/04/2018 21:17

Jedi maybe the racist stuff was on there before the tip off or the cocky fuckers decided to play up to the camera without actually saying or doing anything illegal.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 21:23

Ones wonders if how such people had such intricate knowledge of the law Confused to run so close to the breeze

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 21:28

They were totally playing up to the camera

It’s disgraceful, they played the system and us for a bunch of mugs.

Upthread someone said, Eltham way they are not vilified and fully supported.

You have to be a special kind of entitled criminal to beleive you’ll always get away with it.

I read about the killers now. Like knight lives in Eltham. Is a roofer and has kids! That means someone is willing to employ him, and someone was willing to have kids with him. Not everyone feels as abhorrently about it as most of us do

SaltireSaltire · 28/04/2018 21:48

How can we attract bright people into the force
They need to sort out recruitment.
Someone close to me, always wanted to be in The Met. Got a degree, passed interview, medical, basic exams, fitness and paid themselves to get the policing qualification. Passed the lot. Wanted to join for all the right reasons - bursting with enthusiasm.
Was then told having met every requirement that they'd be on a list as recent recruitment changes meant they were prioritising people who spoke a second language - any language - just to meet 'diversity' targets. (Pal got in as they could speak Dutch! I mean - have you every met a Dutch speaker who couldn't speak perfect English). Ridiculous - Stephen Lawrence didn't need a bi-lingual police officer, he needed a moral, caring, uncorrupted one!

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 21:50

Norris and Dobson were convicted by new forensic science, not available in 1993, on specks of blood barely visible to the naked eye. Which is why they did not destroy the clothes. The other two almost certainly destroyed theirs overnight and gave similar-looking items when they were finally called on. If that is right they might have got away with it however clean and efficient the Met had been.

Here’s a thought. N and D’s parents alibied them in court. Doreen Lawrence wanted them prosecuted for perjury but that was impossible. Which of us would do the same for our family whatever they had done?

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 21:54

Incidentally OldBean2 I loathe Michael Mansfield but I don’t quite the no he is Michael Manson!

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 21:54

@Andrewofgg
One would hope my children wouldn’t turn out to be murdering scum, or that I had brought them up to think that crime was ok, or that violence was ok. Or that sexual assault was ok.
They’re parents are fucking scum too
And I can say categorically that I would not alibi any member of my family for murder of an innocent person.

wherethewildthingis · 28/04/2018 21:58

With ref to joint enterprise, and this is a bit of a derail, PP are not quite right. If you stood by and did nothing - no goading, no involvement - you may still be convicted of murder. The test is if you had reasonable cause to think that someone you were with might commit murder or really significant harm, then you are as guilty as they are. So as an example, a teenager may be convicted of murder on the basis that he goes with his friend to confront someone else over a dispute. If teenager knows his friend has a capacity to be very violent, and his friend goes on to kill, then teenager is guilty of murder under joint enterprise. It's quite a problematic law!

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 21:59
  • think he is
SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 22:01

If that is right they might have got away with it however clean and efficient the Met had been

ahh - I ll remember that the next time I want to kill some one just dispose of the clothes! because thats all any case has ever rested pre forsenic science Confused ..
SaltireSaltire

I can believe it. MADNESS.
*

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 22:03

It’s what made the case against N and D and if they had destroyed their clothes at once they would never have been at risk.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 22:05

Andrew whether we would albi our dc in such circumstances..Hmm

are many of us part of life long intricate crime networks, living by our own rules outside of moral normal codes? Hating police, school, education...railing against authority and admiring not the likes of neslon mandella or nobel peace prize winners but instead having respect for the likes of the KRAYS and richardsons..

Have you ever met such people? Or been with them, around them, hung out with them? Because I have.

I went out with cousin of local crime family when I was naive 14 year old.

Tinycitrus · 28/04/2018 22:07

I think most people in Eltham were horrified by what happened. And names were given to the police on the first night and repeatedly as the investigation went on.

That poor boy.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 22:10

One officer on the program said the names were only given in as a rumour spread ie - nothing note worth .

Angry

even though they listed other stabbings perped by these animals.

897654321abcvrufhfgg · 28/04/2018 22:16

One of the most shocking parts for me was when one of the police officers referred to Doreen’s grief as “a gimmick”. Utterly disrespectful and downright disgusting.

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 22:27

The police came out of this so badly. Right to the top.
And then they had the audacity to say that the Macpherson report was just some sort of bullshit political populist propaganda, Who cares if it was! It was fucking needed

They weren’t going to sort the shit on their own doorstep out, someone else had to ram it home to them.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 22:43

I wonder if police is still riddled with masons because something is not right here.

so defensive and club like.

SaltireSaltire · 28/04/2018 22:43

And I can say categorically that I would not alibi any member of my family for murder of an innocent person

Agree

  • it’s called living with a moral code and having a conscience.
I can’t believe people think it right to alibi their kids for murder, rape, paedophilia ........seriously, no wonder there are amoral nuckledragging thugs terrorising innocent people!