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Original poster

Poor Stephen Lawrence

136 replies

Merryoldgoat · 17/04/2018 23:54

I’m watching the Stephen Lawrence documentary. I’m only about half an hour in and I can’t bear it.

I just think about my boys upstairs and can’t imagine how his parents and his friend must feel.

It’s just so awful.

OP posts:
Smeddum · 28/04/2018 15:43

Jamie Acourt confessed to a girl he sexually assaulted. She posted on another thread about it. Nothing was ever followed up.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 16:20

Many of the police were police in name only. They were in the the pockets of the the criminals who attacked Stephen. They were not on the victim side.

People chide the mail on here but that paper held those murders to account. They had courages and brave front page calling them all murderers when justice and our justice systems failed the victim, his family and indeed all of us.

Shining moment for the mail if you ask me.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 16:23

It's been common knowledge for ages that the family paid the police!

Queenoftheblitz · 28/04/2018 16:35

Sun I agree with you on the Mail.
Critics denounce trial by media but the judicial system often lets us down but is rarely held to account.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 28/04/2018 16:39

This crime made me very sad - but the Damilola Taylor murder made me sick to my stomach.

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 17:03

It genuinely makes me feel sick to the stomach. Deaths and murders happen. It’s part of life, it’s shit, but there is no getting away from it.

That said murder should be properly investigated by non corrupt police. That’s the bit that makes me feel the most sick in all of this.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 17:12

I think there is something rotten in the police force, one looks to Rotherham and other instances... Child abuse.. Turning blind eyes...

I don't know how it can be routed out or what can be done..

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 17:20

Names came in, someone out there risked their own life too bravely tell the names and the previous stabbings of the five.

The police said.. Names are not evidence. HmmAngry

It beggars belief.. That police didn't go and search and look for the evidence!! Secure, monitor and the site...

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 17:27

@SunwheretheFareyou
That was so shocking
Wasn’t there a photo of one of them dumping a black bin bag before the police searched them?
They thought they were untouchable and they were fucking right

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 17:40

I was quite young at the time, and I remember my frustration as to why they were not proactively getting that hard information! Actively getting it rather than repeating... We need hard evidence.

Driscoll said.. If Clifford norris had contacts in the police.. It's common sense he would use them.

I felt this at the time. I bet so many people thought.. This is it.. The family will go down.. We will all be free!! But nothing!!

Yes they were untouchable.

joystir59 · 28/04/2018 17:43

Doreen Lawrence rocks. I met her a few years ago when she came to talk with some young offenders I was working with. Her grief, anger and strength are palpable. She is formidable.

joystir59 · 28/04/2018 17:45

One thing they didn't mention is the Stephen Lawrence Trusts founded in Stephen's name to provide support and routes into architecture for promising black teenagers, among other work. Stephen wanted to become an architect.

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 17:51

The other point is... Whilst undoubtedly race is involved.. The guy Smith who was killed four years earlier, his death was never investigated either..he was white and norris stopped that investigation too..

I think its more of a case of scary nasty family.. Having massive deep police influences... No matter who's the victim is..

And of course still going on today... I wish the police corruption had had as much light shone on it as the race side.

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 18:52

There's one aspect that makes me queasy. Long before the double-jeopardy law was relaxed there was a documentary about the murder with some footage of some of the men concerned - and another man who was not there - exchanging foul racial language. They were in their own home and subject to secret surveillance - although I think they may have guessed.

Now I am not excusing that but there is a reason why such language is not illegal in anyone's home, and I have got to wonder who allowed that surveillance and on what authority - especially since it affected people who were not concerned in the murder - and even more, who the hell allowed it to be passed to the media?

JediJim · 28/04/2018 19:43

Someone mentioned the joint enterprise law. This was used in the Gary Newlove murder. Basically a group of yobs attacked Gary Newlove, a man who confronted some boys outside his home.He died of his injuries. The yobs were convicted of joint enterprise.
A few years ago, one of the boys mothers was on the radio claiming that it was unfair her son was in prison and that the joint enterprise law shouldn’t exist. I was thinking at the time, sorry love but maybe if you brought your beloved son up with a bit more respect, then he wouldn’t have attacked and killed innocent man trying to protect his property.
Surely if the Justice system got rid of the joint enterprise law, gangs of people could just get away with murder because they’d all blame each other??
I think purely because of the Stephen Lawrence case, the joint enterprise law will stand. Otherwise they have to potentially free Norris and Dobson. They can’t prove who actually stabbed Stephen but they can prove beyond reasonable doubt that Norris and Dobson were there.

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 19:54

I get the impression with joint enterprise, that if you were there with no intent and ran off or called for help straight away then you’re unlikely to be prosecuted and likely to be a witness. I might be wrong
But standing there goading the thing along makes you as guilty as the next man

JediJim · 28/04/2018 19:59

A few years ago I worked in a Prison. We taught in training about corruption. Now, like Police to a certain degree, you can be open to threats, or bribery. I spoke to a Prison officer who many years ago worked with IRA prisoners. They could be threatened by some pretty dangerous people.
I’m not excusing corruption in the police, but I can see how dangerous people can abuse the system. Witness intimidation is one thing that can play a part in a criminal trial. I don’t know how much influence Clifford Norris would have had over the case, but he was jailed himself about a year after Stephens Lawrence’s murder for 8 years.

Queenoftheblitz · 28/04/2018 19:59

Andrew i think that footage was filmed before they were charged and was used at the first trial so was released to the media. The footage was vile but not enough to convict.
Surveillance has been carried out on Philpot who killed his 6 kids in a house fire and another guy who killed his gf in Bournemoth. I don't know who gives the go ahead to do this.

JediJim · 28/04/2018 20:04

Lostforagoodname you’re right reference joint enterprise. If your caught up in amurder, that wasn’t premeditated, buy go to the police straight away, you may not get prosecuted if you testify against the perpetrators.
If your involved and do nothing and lie to the police then you are guilty of joint enterprise. That’s how I understand it in basic terms.

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 20:10

Queenoftheblitz The point is that engaging in vile racialist talk in your own home is not illegal and ought not to be.

JediJim You are so right about the Newlove case and that whining mother. I am fed up with the campaign against joint enterprise. It is applied common sense.

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 20:13

But they taped the home in hope of some discussion about the murder. Which I am shocked never happened.
But it showed intent to racial attack, so I’m not surprised they tried to use it.
And I guess once it had been used in a trial it was open for everyone. Trials are open

Andrewofgg · 28/04/2018 20:22

They guessed they were being taped. Talking nasty but not about the murder was raising two fingers at the police.

JediJim · 28/04/2018 20:26

The surveillance tapes were filmed over a year later? How did the police get into the flat! Did they know they were being filmed? They seemed to look into the camera. At one point Gary Dobsons girlfriend even looked at it and asked what it was?
The tapes were disgusting but ultimately not evidence. I wondered why Dobson and Norris didn’t destroy their clothes, surely had they have done so then there wouldn’t have been DNA evidence to help convict them.

Lostforagoodname · 28/04/2018 20:40

I’m sure they did destroy the main clothes. But they were just too stupid to destroy everything.
But clearly they wanted to keep their button down collar ralphies Hmm

Christ, if the police had of just raided their houses as soon as they had names, they would have been banged up

But if you look at it from another point of view, there wouldn’t have been all this media, wouldn’t have been an enquiry into institutional racism in the met.

As much as it’s awful what happened, it precipitated a lot of change.
And for that his parents should be proud, they helped to change history positively,

Sometimes things only change after something truly horrific has happened

SunwheretheFareyou · 28/04/2018 20:49

Confused did you you watch the recent documentary?
It explains it in there.

It wasn't racist language. It was details about leaving black people with no limbs.

It was shown with actual knives showing how they would stab someone.... Black.

Andrew what the daily mail did was also technically libellous. I suspect you also find that queasy making even though us that paper and that bold headline that lead to the relaxing of them double jeopardy law and really put these Vile evil shits on the line and eventually got two at least jailed Confused