for being a SAHM

[2shoeswhoismshadowsnumber1fan]

i am a SAHM because
I have a severely disabled child. I have to be on call 24/7 as she also has epilepsy/
Dh is happy for me to be a SAHM and we manage finacially.
apart from respite we have no one to help if she is ill or in the school hoildays.

"almost a duty to put other women above your own children even if you think it's better for your children..."

Interesting point of view and not completely mad I think.

You could apply this argument to paying for private medical care or education; but I wonder how sympathetic you'd be to it in those contexts, Xenia.

I believe in a society that allows people to balance freedom of choice and tolerance with a desire to protect its citizens from harm. Not sure it is relevant to this thread except for suggesting that the "SAHM or not debate" seems largely irrelevant in such a system.

Discuss [grin}

Rantum - surely the SAHM/WOHM debate on MN greatly enhances people's freedom of choice by exposing all the arguments in stark terms? In RL the debate tends to get couched in politeness, which rather dilutes the points to be made IMO.

At least in England it's easier than in other countries (I'm thinking of Italy, where I am from) to get part time jobs, retrain, and go back to work after a break of a few years. The majority of my female friends in Milano work full time.
On the other hand, in other countries (again I'm thinking about italy, or just Milano, as that's my experience) the access to good, cheaper nursieries is easier, so much so, that it is not such a taboo sending your children to nursery, even if you don't actually work.

franca - same is true in France - it's much harder to take a career break/retrain/do part-time work/go freelance here than in the UK

Xenia...I'll ask you again since you ignored my question (not for the first time)as I'm very interested in your opinion.

What do you think of Women who choose Childcare as a Career???

scotishthistle = dont hold yer breath waiting for her to respond. She tends to ignore other posts..

Awen - I disagree with quite a few of the things Xenia says, but her posts are usually intelligent and yours, frankly, are not. Ironically, you actually come across as being more intolerant of different opinions - or maybe you're just intolerant of different opinions that are stated quite baldly? FWIW I think Xenia tolerates a lot of different opinions, she just doesn't hold back in declaring that she disagrees with them, and a lot of people are very uncomfortable with that sort of dispassionate argument - which is understandable but doesn't justify the sorts of personal attacks you've been making.

I'm not holding my breathe, I value my dull life too much!

Dinosaur, I don't need Xenia's endorsement re my career choice!

I'm genuinely interested in her views.

Hear hear dinosaur! The voice of sanity!

Well all know her views! Ad infinitum.

Callmemadam, interesting post.

I've worked for three SAHM, all had very well paid jobs before having children.

No1: Full time Housekeeper/live-in Nanny

No2: Live-in Housekeeper/live-in Nanny/Gardener/3 daily maids.

No3: Full-time Housekeeper/live-in Nanny/weekend Nanny/Driver/part-time chef/Hairdresser

None of the above Women were happy no matter what face they put on for the outside world!...No3 actually wanted to be a real Mum but her husband wanted her to have more interesting things to talk about at the dinner table!

Call me mad, I'd like to hear her exact words!

I'm also glad I work for a high flying Woman who respects my Career!

I don't want to put words in Xenia's mouth (she can speak for herself) but I suspect she'd say that it's a bad idea to choose childcare because it's a low paying job. She has frequently expressed the view that doing low paying jobs is not a good idea. (She has expressed that view in different language)

iclimbedupamountain I disagree with you that Xenia's arguments are dispassionate and bald and that Awen is angry with her about that. Again I don't wish to put words in Awen's mouth, but I suspect that the reason she gets annoyed with X, is because X frequently ignores dispassionate argument which challenges her view. It is very irritating to see threads and know that because of X, it is going to be turned from an interesting discussion into a boring SAHM v WOHM knockabout. Frankly, it's boring and very frustrating when you've seen about twenty of those threads in the last month and at no time does X address any points she doesn't want to, she just carries on hammering home her view (with which we're all familiar). It is like listening to a politician on the Today programme. And that can get very annoying and people express themselves accordingly.

Sorry if I'm putting words in either of your mouths, Awen and Xenia.

But one way to deal with that is just to ignore the person there is an issue with and not answer her or his posts. That could easily be done if people had no interest in what I say or if my points didn't niggle at their own insecurities about their often wrong supposed choices.....

I do try to answer direct questions. I can't always pick them all up because of doing other things at the same time.

This was one "What do you think of Women who choose Childcare as a Career???"
What do I think of people in general may be you start with - some people choose to spend a life in thought or in prayer or an enclosed order or single or in the priesthood. I would never say those people were worse or not as good as your average City trader. They may do less good actually on some bases but they are no worse.

I have 3 children at university who need to choose at least how initially they will spend their lives/work. I know that people can be very happy in well paid work and don't then have all the stresses you see on mumsnet about my man who I depend on has run off with a younger woman and my income is zero and I'm completely stuffed or we can't afford a house as house prices are so high; or nannies are too expensive etc etc so I do think if you encourage children into very interesting well paid jobs on average that probably serves them best. But if they have a passion for something else so be it as long as they understand the implications. Quite a few nannies have set up childcare agencies and sold them off for large sums. Lots of career choices can lead to a profitable exist.. or perhaps better route for my daughters.. be a nanny to someone rich and nice and pinch him from his older wife.... classic solution for some. Look at the Sound of Music story.

Not nearly as interesting as I thought it'd be!

I've no wish to steal somebody else's husband (my Mother brought me up with strong morals)or work for a rich man who's lost his wife a la Maria!

Money does not always equal happiness Xenia!

this is now a not very nice thread...

stop it girls! put your gloves away... nice cup of tea.... and a bit of fresh air...

oh xenia, for a feminist (i've noticed this alot) you do seem to have a very low opinion of women! I think i would find that a nanny, teacher, nurse, dinner lady may have more to say that would interest me than a city trader TBH. But i guess you don't mix with such plebs so that is something you wouldnt possibly able to comment on, i suspect you will just plod on with the same argument, im surprised you dont cut and paste it from the Times.

this tread and those like it have turned me into a bitch! (like i wasnt one already, now excuse me, i have to go and sharpen my claws on the new leather sofa)

Xenia, did your hubby run off with the Nanny/cleaner/maid?

Xenia makes me laugh... a lot .

hmm

So my point about whether you think your argument about sacrificing the welfare of your own children for the common good stands up in education and/ or healthcare? I am actually interested in your views on that because I don't think your view is completely mad - there is a balance between what your own children are entitled to and what is the common good. Some people come down on the "my children's welfare comes first every single time, I'm buying them a 4x4 to get in and private education and private healthcare and sod other people's children" and that is a perfectly understandable viewpoint. Others come down on the "I know a small family car is not as safe for the people in it as a 4x4, but it is safer for the wider community and therefore I'm going for that one" etc. etc. I'm intrigued that you think that women going out to work even where they believe that that would damage their children, is in the same type of category - ie common good versus family/ individual good.