To wonder why male things are always better?

[Bumpitybumper]

Has anyone else noticed things typically associated with men are considered to be better? Examples I've noticed:

Trivial
Names - baby girls being given male names is considered cool and trendy (James, Noah etc) but this seems to seldom work in reverse.
Colours - pink is often rejected even for girls because it's too 'girly' but blue is acceptable for both sexes.

Non-trivial
Professions - women are encouraged to enter typically make dominated STEM industries but little is done to address the appalling pay, conditions and underappreciation of female denominated sectors such as teaching, caring etc
Childcare - the onus seems to be on getting more women into FT work rather than spending time at home to raise their children. Tax system and free childcare entitlements designed to encourage this rather than to incentivise men AND women to be SAHPs.

There are loads of other things I've noticed too.

AIBU to be deeply cynical about why the traditionally male approach is always seen to be superior and to worry that this isn't the best way to achieve equality?

I've said on here before that something where feminism really dropped the ball was childcare. I remember back in the 70s when I was A Bright Young Feminist we hardly talked about it at all-apart from assuming there would be feee 24 hour childcare from birth...... It's certainly something that we need to talk about though. And SAHM and WOHM need to be prepared not to be offended when the negatives of the different positions are discussed. I don't think anyone thinks that 12 hours in childcare is the best possible thing for a child-including the people whose lives mean that it's necessary. But we need to be able to talk about it and think about new ways round it without feeling got at or prickly

Yes Coffee to me that's exactly the point.

The point is not the problems on an individual level, for each family, because each family dynamic can differ. for example my DH is a SAHD to our 2 babies, and I am taking flexible work on my return from mat leave so I work mornings only.

On a societal level however, there is much assumption and expectation on women to fill the traditional role of carer as well as juggling the necessities of modern life, as IMO there is not enough support from any side (in terms of practical, financial, or from the perspective of of social pressures and expectations).

It really needs to change, because I feel that not only are women pressured to feel like they must build their own careers and support their families financially, but because of this lack of perceived value of being at home to raise children in favour of working, it is actually becoming taboo to even talk about its value for fear of offending working mothers. Not only is this lack of discussion detrimental to working mums, it effects working dads too.

I am a working mum, I worked full time with a 2 year old before my second maternity leave, and my mum also worked a very high flying job while my dad stayed at home and looked after us. So perhaps this has skewed my perspective and rather than feeling the need to constantly fight for the validity of women in the work place, I find it more prudent to work towards a balance for both men and women that means that families can actually be more involved with each other all round.

Although I agree with a lot of this I have to say girls have a much better choice with regards to clothes
I have 2 boys the eldest one is now relegated to a choice of grey black brown navy blue clothes . We went shopping the other day and they had the 'choice' of several shades of grey joggers or jeans and that was the only choice available . Girls section was 3x as big.
He's gutted as he likes bright colours, I can still get them but it's like finding gold dust.

I think some things are slowly getting better I am a construction professional and as you might guess it's a pretty male dominated area and when I started (a few years back now) I really struggled to get protective equipment that fitted (I'm quite tiny for a women so extra hard) but now I can get it from screwfix/toolstation easily

The most senior civil servant in the country, the PM, is a woman.

The First Minister of Scottland is a woman.

The head of the Home Office is a woman.

The head of the Met police is a woman.

The most successfull author on the planet is a British woman. JK Rowling.

The most successfull singer on the planet is a British woman. Adele.

But yeah, sorry I forgot, things for men are better.

I remember back in the 70s when I was A Bright Young Feminist we hardly talked about it at all-apart from assuming there would be feee 24 hour childcare from birth......hmm It's certainly something that we need to talk about though.

I think it's still the case that a lot of women are theoretically aware of the impact of motherhood on careers, etc. but think very little about the logistics until they affect them. Just yesterday I was talking to a friend who considers herself radically and committedly feminist, and she was shocked when I said I thought this baby might be the end of my academic career long-term, and she asked whether I could do sessional teaching to tide me over - and even more shocked when I pointed out that I couldn't get childcare that would only charge me in the (particularly short in the university we work for) term, so I couldn't possibly turn a profit working term-time only. It had genuinely never occurred to her that nurseries etc. don't work on a 'pay as you go' basis.

Although I agree with a lot of this I have to say girls have a much better choice with regards to clothes

I'd argue they have a larger choice of clothing in shops, but better is a bit of a stretch. You can search for hours to find a top for girls which reaches the waistband of her bottoms, or even approaches her elbows. If you want bottoms you can climb a tree in, be prepared to go to three shops and give up.

Girls' clothes are designed for Looking Nice. Boys' clothes are designed for Doing Stuff In.

As is often bewailed, clothes for baby boys who haven't worked out where their hands are yet have better pockets than those for adult women who actually need to carry stuff around with them.

It's not exactly the same thing but my nephew works in a bar, the staff are overwhelmingly young men and the supervisors and managers are all men. He was trained in up selling to try and flog more booze. When someone orders a spirit they say 'do you want a small or a large?' to men and 'do you want a single or a double?'to women. Apparently 'women don't want to be single or large and men don't want to be small'.

Re doing DIY etc. There isn't the equivalent good quality work gear at Supermarket etc prices.

Women are pressured into showing their arms or their legs.

My DD is looking for girls rompers with at least a shirt sleeve, there isn't ant (Next is the most expensive she can manage). All of the 'boys' have sleeves. Do little girls not get sunburned on their shoulders?

justmyownself what has that got to do with me being able to buy going-out flat shoes, or clothes with sleeves?

We do need to value raising children as a society. So be it by mothers, fathers or as a career in it's own right - it's hardly surprising that all the childcare professionals I've met are woman. (Even though relatively it's a well paid job, a full time place with a childminder in this town is £1k a month, they can have several children, it's a good income stream, yet not treated as valid career prospect for men).

The most senior civil servant in the country, the PM, is a woman.

Two of the Queen's fifteen PMs have been women. All the rest have been male. And those two women have been absolutely battered by criticism both political and personal.

The First Minister of Scotland is a woman.
The head of the Home Office is a woman.
The head of the Met police is a woman.

Again, battered for daring to step outside the norm. Continual press sneering about their outfits/hair/relationships. Don't you remember "Legs-it"?

The most successful author on the planet is a British woman. JK Rowling.

Who had to publish her first novel with her initials rather than her first name to be taken seriously, and whose first novel for adults bears a male pen name.

The most successful singer on the planet is a British woman. Adele.

By any measure this is simply incorrect. Only ten of the top 50 best selling singing acts even contain women (there are plenty of groups of 4+ men so you're looking at 10 women out of 100-150) and the highest woman is Barbra Streisand at 12th.

But because the Queen has a uterus, apparently sexism doesn't exist any more. Hurrah!

I agree OP. Altho where i live the names are all pretty middle class and 'out there' so you don't get many raised eyebrows on names regardless of what they are. My DC are always getting mixed up for the other sex on name alone. People think DS1 and 2 have girls names (and they both had long beautiful curls till 3yo) and DD has a boys name. All unintentional.

The clothes thing is also a pain. But you need to shop at places like Frugi/Polarn to get something more sturdy and unisex. I bought an outfit for DD from Boden which had a yellow long sleeved t-shirt and a duck on the front and matching blue/denim trousers 12-18mo. I was so surprised when it arrived as the packaging and labels had 'Boys' all over it. I hadn't thought for a moment that yellow and ducks were gendered in any way. I just buy what colours suit her.

What puzzles me is why things which are 'feminine' traits and skills are so undervalued - particularly financially - especially when they are so essential.

Clothes (in terms of choice and variety), makeup, hair options are all much better for women.

And there are positive to that, because some women get pleasure out of the creativity and self expression that comes with dressing and presentation.

However, it fundamentally underlines the point that women's role is to look attractive. For men.

Thank you, @MrsHathaway, for putting what I wanted to say into much more eloquent words.

And if you look a little closer into the two woman PMs, the story is a little less clear cut. Thatcher was intended to be a puppet but who broke away from the puppet masters, and May was intended as a sacrificial anode after Brexit. Neither was intended to be and whoeheartedly supported as serious, long term PMs

More to the point, really, if we’re talking politics, is the misogyny of the Left- which really should be the home of progressives.

Yes, well done MrsHathaway for dealing so eloquently with such a spectacularly dimwitted post.

It's certainly something that we need to talk about though. And SAHM and WOHM need to be prepared not to be offended when the negatives of the different positions are discussed. I don't think anyone thinks that 12 hours in childcare is the best possible thing for a child-including the people whose lives mean that it's necessary. But we need to be able to talk about it and think about new ways round it without feeling got at or prickly.

^^ I absolutely agree with this. But I also think it will never happen here on Mumsnet. I've been around for 9 years and have yet to see a thread on the issue that hasn't dissolved into a depressing bunfight filled with personal insults.

Because it's expected, in some situations. When I used to go clubbing, I always wore heels, as you wouldn't get past the door without them. And smart work wear for women often means heels. Disability discrimination springs to mind, my DD can't wear heels for medical reasons and has never been refused entry to a club and she has got every job she has interviewed for so it might be more about women thinking they have to wear heels.

But if women want the same haircut as a man, they pay more for it. And in terms of clothes I don't want choice. Simply well made basics. That is very hard to find and more expensive than men's.
And if I look somewhere cheap like ASDA, men's clothes change as often as the women's, but are much better made.

Omg I totally agree with you OP! Also always a huge focus on getting little girls to play with typically male toys (fine, no problem) but hardly any focus on the reverse?!

My DD is looking for girls rompers with at least a shirt sleeve, there isn't ant (Next is the most expensive she can manage). All of the 'boys' have sleeves. Do little girls not get sunburned on their shoulders? Why not buy the boys rompers? I used to put my DD in her brothers rompers as I found them so much more practical than dresses. Next have some lovely rompers, can't see why a girl can't wear them.

DS and I were watching Star Trek Discovery last night, where in the 23rd century, professional dress for a woman - even a woman raised on an alien planet - includes makeup. (Michael Burnham is only shown without makeup when she is a prisoner.) I find this exhausting.

And yes, thank you MrsHathaway - spot on.

Agree Mrs Frumble

I took the dc for a haircut the other day and DS1 & 2 have longish/layered thick curly hair which requires about 20 mins each to cut. DD who is only 1 had her first haircut and her hair is thin and whispy and was a straight bob in about 6 snips round. I was really pissed off when they charged £5 more for her hair cut because she is a girl. I had just assumed a child's haircut was a child's haircut and all the same price.

We do disagree. Its shaming full time in particular, are you full time then

I work full time and don't feel "shamed"

@ moonbells
I love the idea of a pocket in a wedding dress. Dare I ask if you used it?
Pockets in trousers or skirts, MEN aren't saying you can't have them. In fact it should be encouraged so partners don't have to carry 'your' crap around (spare hankie, loose change, kitchen sink etc).
I was a SAHD and did lots of the baby group 'stuff' and it really 'P*&^%$$' me off when people said how good I was. NO, it was my child and I was doing what was necessary in terms of childcare and enjoying myself.
I also have bare arms if at all possible and shorts if it is really hot (look away now).
I believe the senior engineer in charge of the bridges/tunnels for Crossrail is a woman. I don't think she mixes all the concrete herself though, she gets a man in!