To wonder why male things are always better?

[Bumpitybumper]

Has anyone else noticed things typically associated with men are considered to be better? Examples I've noticed:

Trivial
Names - baby girls being given male names is considered cool and trendy (James, Noah etc) but this seems to seldom work in reverse.
Colours - pink is often rejected even for girls because it's too 'girly' but blue is acceptable for both sexes.

Non-trivial
Professions - women are encouraged to enter typically make dominated STEM industries but little is done to address the appalling pay, conditions and underappreciation of female denominated sectors such as teaching, caring etc
Childcare - the onus seems to be on getting more women into FT work rather than spending time at home to raise their children. Tax system and free childcare entitlements designed to encourage this rather than to incentivise men AND women to be SAHPs.

There are loads of other things I've noticed too.

AIBU to be deeply cynical about why the traditionally male approach is always seen to be superior and to worry that this isn't the best way to achieve equality?

Don't let facts get in the way of your emoticons.

www.statista.com/statistics/280749/monthly-full-time-weekly-hours-of-work-in-the-uk-by-gender-year-on-year/

So, men work more paid hours than women on average.
What do you think that means?

'Nearly three quarters of women, and just 71% of men.'Not a lot of difference is there? '8% of women, and just 6% of men.' Ditto.'

I think it means your stupid smileys about men sacrificing family life to spend more time working and support their families in a different way were misplaced and ignorant of the facts.

silverTIRFer
I'm not womansplaining teaching to you but, I'm pointing out that maybe your experience of teaching isn't typical. www.theguardian.com/education/2017/apr/15/demanding-workload-driving-young-teachers-out-of-profession

I agree free choice isn't something to tackle but looking at to what extent any decisions we make are truly a free choice and then how the consequences of an apparent free choice can be unreasonable is a worthwhile exercise. Also for as long as women carry the burden of childbearing they will never benefit from truly equal opportunity without some form of intervention. Your narrow view of meritocracy and capitalism just favours those that are incumbered by having babies (i.e. men).

*unincumbered

In a much lighter vein , has anyone else noticed how little boys always seem to have curls and beautiful long eyelashes ,that their sisters would give their eye teeth for ?

To my mind the huge problem to overcome is that essentially society sees femaleness as somehow shameful, because society is still patriachal and still sees men expressing things seen as feminine as an embarrassment. I think a lot could change if we got over that attitude.

I think things are gradually changing, and people are, for example, feeling less worried about bullying if, for example, they have a little boy who is into fairies and princesses.

This thread somehow led me reading this article about duck sex.

www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/duck-sex-and-the-patriarchy

The Grauniad article found 1,500 young teachers who found it tough. I'm at the other end of my career and have found it all gets much, much easier.

There are good and bad things about most careers. Teachers go in on a very good salary (especially if qualified by 23 when compared to their peers), there's a very clear progression and increase of salary. Good union support. Excellent job security.

I would be amazed if those numbers about leaving the profession didn't decrease as age increased and I also suspect that those who think they may leave don't.

It's one of those quite unusual jobs where many are happy to never be promoted as it becomes a very different role (management as opposed to teaching) as well as which, the job doesn't usually get harder, you get better at it.

Your narrow view of meritocracy and capitalism just favours those that are incumbered by having babies (i.e. men).

I absolutely disagree. I have been a 'typical man' in my relationship (my mind's gone blank trying to think of a different term) and a typical woman at different times. With DC1 I had 2 years off and went back to work. Different school and 'demotion'. With DC2, I went back to work after a few months. DH resigned (he's an academic) and became self-employed / part time and a SAHP.

There are downsides to both roles. I missed adult contact and being mentally challenged when a SAHP and I missed my family when working. Until we all live in some kind of utopia where no one needs to make sacrifices or work, we need to accept that our decisions have consequences.

I think that my career was set back 5-10 years by my 2 years off. DH says his is affected far more.

I don't think childbearing is a burden. Yes, we can be burdened by our choices and live to regret them but I don't think that's applicable here. It's a fine argument for sorting out child maintenance from absent parents but not for expecting anyone who takes time off from work, becomes inflexible with their availability and works fewer hours to claim that the system is rigged against them.

You speak of children like they're some awful thing imposed on women. I know it isn't waht you mean but it sounds strange. There are plenty of men and women who decide not to have children for the sake of their careers. All other things being equal; they deserve to then go on and do better than me / us in the area they've focused on.

Which you're about to prove, no doubt?

Well I worked in a coding industry and was involved in recruitment of females but still....

silverTIRFer
I appreciate that being a teacher isn't all bad, but you just have to peruse the threads on MN to see many teachers, both relatively inexperienced and experienced, struggling with the demands of the profession. The starting pay may be comparable to lots of graduate schemes and the bursaries to train are often competitive, but I would argue that the salary for the role generally is low when benchmarked across other industries requiring that level of education and responsibility.

Whilst I agree that anyone that chooses to spend time as a SAHP can't expect it to have no impact on their career, however I think the impact is generally disproportionate and affects predominantly women. Two years out of the workplace shouldn't set you back 10 years. Also childbearing isn't a choice for women if you want a family. Pregnancy and childbirth can force a woman to have to miss extended periods of work. Do you think it's fair women should be denied equal opportunites because of this?

@JacquesHammer

I'm Queen of STEM at Oxbridge and invented OO code and have 11 PhDs and helped Turing (well, he helped me) so ...

I think we have different ideas of proof or fact.

How is "recruitment of females" legal?

I can imagine you in your "involvement"

Jacq: "Yes, he's clearly the most experienced and best qualified but unfortunately he has a cock"

Reasonable person: "but ..."

Jacq: "Fuck off. He's a man!"

Reasonable person: "but ..."

Jacq: "I said, he's a member of the oppressive class you misogynist! I'd like you to meet Belinda. She had an Atari."

How unbelievably arrogant you are and sadly you seem to think you’re rather witty which is tragically misguided.

It’s not even worth discussing the point with someone who doesn’t possess enough critical thinking skills to actually engage

And “how is it legal?” Seriously. You’re a teacher and you don’t understand recruitment into industry isn’t always filling a single role but getting females interested from education level. Nice job.

Pregnancy and childbirth can force a woman to have to miss extended periods of work. We have a choice. When I had my last child I couldn't wait to start maternity leave, I had holiday owing and started 12 weeks before due date, by the time I was due to return I had accrued more holiday so he was almost 12 months when I went back to work. I worked with someone who was having their first, and only, child. She worked till the Friday before a planned C Section on the Monday so no time off before the birth. The Saturday after the birth, so day six, her and her husband, baby and nanny went on 2 weeks summer holiday. When she got back she returned to work on the Monday so she was off for 3 weeks but that included her two week summer holiday. I would have hated it but it was her choice, she was very career minded and it was important to her to get back to work and make sure she didn't lose out career wise.

Personally I had a good career but I suppose it might have been better if I hadn't had 4 lots of maternity leave but my choice, I would have sacrificed more of my career for the joys of pregnancy, childbirth, and that time with my baby. The truth is we can't have it all, at least not all the time, and we all make choices and then live with them.

"You’re a teacher"

Kind of.

"you don’t understand recruitment into industry isn’t always filling a single role but getting females interested from education level[?]"

That isn't the role you described or the question you answered.

"Nice job."

I love it.

Please do tell me where in this: -

Well I worked in a coding industry and was involved in recruitment of females but still....

It says I am recruiting for a single role or for a single company?

Because it actually doesn't; you made an assumption rather, didn't you?

One of the people who empty my bins is a woman. One of the operatives at the local tip/recycling centre is a woman. Not a job I'd want but maybe it is well paid.

peacheachpearplum YOU may have had a choice. I presume you didn't suffer from debilitating hypermesis or preeclampsia in pregnancy. I presume you didn't suffer significant birth injuries. People don't choose these things but they will massively affect someone's ability to stay working during pregnancy or get back to work.

sadly you seem to think you’re rather witty which is tragically misguided.

Indeed.

I'm not convinced TIRFer is female. There are plenty of brainwashed women in the world, but I'm not sure this is one.

It looks like they joined yesterday solely to post on this thread.

One of the people who empty my bins is a woman. One of the operatives at the local tip/recycling centre is a woman. Not a job I'd want but maybe it is well paid

That's anecdote rather than evidence though? There are always going to be women who do the "traditionally male" roles. But that doesn't extrapolate out into meaning there isn't a disparity between male and female in the workplace.

This is because gender is a hiererchy, not a spectrum.

"One of the people who empty my bins is a woman. One of the operatives at the local tip/recycling centre is a woman"
Good. I'm going to save that anecdote for the next tine someone says that men are discriminated against because they do all the heavy dirty jobs in society.

@JacquesHammer

"sadly you seem to think you’re rather witty"

I do. Apparently it's a product of my schooling. DH isn't sure if my confidence is my best or worst quality.

@RidingWindhorses

Ah, you're one of them.

I don't need to convince you of anything. I've been around for a long time; I like to name change I know that however much I think @Jacq is wrong, she posts a lot and is at least consistent.

Don't remember seeing your user name. You just be a man!

@BertrandRussell

I thought men benefitted from doing the heavy and dirty jobs i.e. bin men earn more than cleaners.