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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why male things are always better?

324 replies

Bumpitybumper · 17/04/2018 10:44

Has anyone else noticed things typically associated with men are considered to be better? Examples I've noticed:

Trivial
Names - baby girls being given male names is considered cool and trendy (James, Noah etc) but this seems to seldom work in reverse.
Colours - pink is often rejected even for girls because it's too 'girly' but blue is acceptable for both sexes.

Non-trivial
Professions - women are encouraged to enter typically make dominated STEM industries but little is done to address the appalling pay, conditions and underappreciation of female denominated sectors such as teaching, caring etc
Childcare - the onus seems to be on getting more women into FT work rather than spending time at home to raise their children. Tax system and free childcare entitlements designed to encourage this rather than to incentivise men AND women to be SAHPs.

There are loads of other things I've noticed too.

AIBU to be deeply cynical about why the traditionally male approach is always seen to be superior and to worry that this isn't the best way to achieve equality?

OP posts:
MrsHathaway · 17/04/2018 12:57

Ah, but their hair dye is shite.

A friend told me today of her intention to stop bothering dying her hair. This is partly in response to unsolicited comments she has had when her roots have been showing, that she needs to get them sorted.

A man can have grey hair without any comment on his attitude to life or his desirability - there is no female equivalent of the phrase "silver fox", is there?

So it doesn't matter a bit if men's hair dye is shit, because men aren't expected to dye their hair. Whereas the worst thing in the world a woman can ever do is show the natural depredations of time on her body.

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 12:58

So maybe our efforts should concentrate on that rather than shaming working mums ? Several posts on this thread have been really nasty to working mums, i cant see how thats helping make anything 'better' for wo en.

Mrsfrumble · 17/04/2018 12:58

Yes, women have always worked. But traditionally, who has taken care of children while mothers are working? Other women! Whether someone is looking after their own children or someone else's, getting paid for it or not, that "someone" is hardly ever a man.

User10383727282 · 17/04/2018 12:59

I always think this when I watch the Olympics. I can't think of any events where having a woman's physique would be an advantage because nearly all the events need you to be big, strong, muscley to get to the top ie typically male characteristics are lauded.

Trying to think of events where having female biology might be an advantage. Competitive contortionism?? Professional pot holing?!

RoboticSealpup · 17/04/2018 12:59

Louisecollins My point was that those choices are made within a sexist incentive structure. So you can't just say that "women want horribly uncomfortable shoes."

5foot5 · 17/04/2018 12:59

Funnily enough just pegged a load of casual clothes out. Without exception DS and DP clothes were fairly thick, well made and robust, even the cheap supermarket t shirts. Mine are much more flimsy and have to be wrangled back into shape to stop them looking like a piece of rag. All of them - underwear, tops, jeans etc. Why? My clothes aren't any cheaper than theirs.

Actually I can think of a possible explanation for this.

Could it be that they provide fewer varieties of styles for men e.g. men will be happy if there are just two styles of T-shirts in a small variety of colours, so they can produce bigger batches of each type of thing.

By contrast women may appreciate more choices of styles and colours so these clothes get made in smaller batches.

The bigger the batch then the lower the production costs I would guess therefore they can either make the same quality but cheaper or use better quality materials but charge less for the finished product.

The80sweregreat · 17/04/2018 12:59

I agree about the whole 'going grey ' thing too. Men are bald, grey, thinning hair, its expected. Women letting it grow out/ go grey/ or whatever, its not any good! Men tend to mature with age too. they get away with so much when you think about it.

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:00

Its difficult to find full time work too so hows that relevant exactly? Comment was why not encourage part time work as opposed to insisting that women should sahp. Sahp

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:01

Not everyone can afford that either

SilverDoe · 17/04/2018 13:02

Actually I think it's really ignorant that you choose to be offended at people pointing out what is a genuine phenomena that negatively affects women,.

No one is implying that women who work "don't raise their kids", the point is that there are societal obstacles to both women being able to participate in the workforce and build a career to the same extent as men, as well as there being obstacles both socially and practically to being a SAHM or part time working mum.

Why bother being offended by people who point out a reality that impacts a lot of women and their families, when you could choose to focus your energy on being offended by the actual problem

RoboticSealpup · 17/04/2018 13:03

shaming working mums

I'm a working mum and I don't feel "shamed" by anything I've read here. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about what qualifies as misogynistic shaming.

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:03

Not everyone can find part time, not everyone can afford sahp yet my post is the one questioned. Weird thread gets weirder

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:04

We do disagree. Its shaming full time in particular, are you full time then.

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:07

Do you 'raise your own kids.'
.?

Damnthatonestaken · 17/04/2018 13:08

Silverdoe im the one agreeing with you, but i find the language used really exclusionary to whats being discussed, make sense?

AhhhhThatsBass · 17/04/2018 13:12

My local church runs a playgroup on Wednesday mornings 9.30-11 for mums and toddlers. They also run a dads playgroup on Saturday mornings with "bacon butties".
Because obviously, all women are sitting at home during the week and don't eat bacon sandwiches while the men are hard at work.
God forbid a woman might also work a typical office hours job and appreciate attending a playgroup on a Saturday with "bacon butties". it really bothers me.

RoboticSealpup · 17/04/2018 13:12

I work 4 days, but for the last three months, I've done so much overtime that it's even taken over my weekends. And that made me feel like shit because I was missing out on being with my DD. I'd rather go down to three days but it's not like my workload would shrink. I'd just be more stressed.

RoboticSealpup · 17/04/2018 13:14

AhhhhThatsBass

My local church runs a regular men's event with steak and beer.

Women get tea and biscuits.

moonbells · 17/04/2018 13:15

I find it quite ironic that as I read this thread the ad at the top is for prettylittlething.com
Sums it all really.

SilverDoe · 17/04/2018 13:18

No, to be honest it doesn't... I'm genuinely confused as to what post you fond offensive, maybe I have missed it.

In general I find it difficult to have conversations like this because people do inevitably get "offended! which to me is just a way of shutting down discussion.

Like for example, if the reason you took offence to somebody saying that they feel it's a bad thing for parents that a child has to be in wraparound care from 7:30 - 6:30pm with both parents working full time, then that's what annoys me because it's saying people can't acknowledge that maybe that isn't an ideal situation, maybe people would want to do it differently if they could, maybe it shows a societal under appreciation of the role parents play in raising children, and maybe it should be different.

CoffeeOrSleep · 17/04/2018 13:19

It's interesting even in this debate - everyone assumes "Working Mum" means "children in paid for childcare" - not that the Dad will be a SAHP instead.

That's the point isn't it - woman are expected to do the same as men, and find another woman to do their traditional roles, or try and fit them round a job - not expect the men in their lives to take them on.

There was a thread about "supported men" a while ago, about the fact that so many men were only able to reach the career points they had because woman in the background were making their lives work, from taking on all the management of the children, home, wider family networks. Someone on that thread pointed out that woman who work, and men who's wives work are at a disadvantage compared to those who have someone at home to take on all that mental load and pressure. On there, a poster pointed out that in order for woman to compete, they needed to be as likely as men to have a SAHP at home - and while there's lots of push for woman to go to work, there's not for men to stay at home.

BuggerBugger · 17/04/2018 13:21

My local church runs a regular men's event with steak and beer.

Women get tea and biscuits.

Why? Are the women not able to say they would rather have steak and beer? Or have they decided they want tea and biscuits?

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 17/04/2018 13:21

I also note that around here, if both parents work it's more likely that the woman's mother (ie the children's granny) picks up the slack than the father. Granny takes kids to swimming, Granny picks up from school one day a week etc.

RoboticSealpup · 17/04/2018 13:30

Why? Are the women not able to say they would rather have steak and beer? Or have they decided they want tea and biscuits?

Your overly simplistic reasoning aside - probably because the comparable "womens" event is a playgroup for children. I.e. naturally happens to be 99% mums.

The men's church social is probably difficult to attract people to and I guess the organisers thought that men are enticed by steak and beer.

ArcheryAnnie · 17/04/2018 13:31

Why? Are the women not able to say they would rather have steak and beer? Or have they decided they want tea and biscuits?

It would be really nice if, just once in a while, women did not have to push and push and push to get access to the higher-value items that are given routinely to men, rather than settling for the lower-value items which are routinely offered to women. (I'd go for steak and tea, myself. but I'd at least like to be offered beer.)