To ask if you agree about the great school gate divide?

[drspouse]

No it's not working/SAHPs or middle class/working class or older/younger parents or even SMOGs vs the rest of us.
It's those with an only or youngest in R/KS1 and those with a hanger on toddler or preschooler!
I'm in the latter category and we've lost all DS preschool friends as they all went to different schools, so we're trying to do playdates.
But I find it really hard to have 2 excited 6 year olds plus a whiny 3 year old who is too young for their games. So I keep having to say "not that day... No not then either as I'll have DD". I owe 3 or 4 now I think. Plus activities - trying to keep DD occupied during DS lesson.
Also those that work part time but have no younger ones or a portable baby are always heading off for a grown-up coffee after drop off, while I have Miss Fidgetybottom who doesn't want to be dragged to grown-up places.

they think it's too much of a risk to have my boy playing with their girl simply because he's a boy, and he might be rough/inappropriate/want to do different things.

Inappropriate?
I don't think 'smogs' usually have any problems with their dd's playing with boys, do they? My dd had plenty of friends who were boys. Maybe it's your ds they have a problem with, not all boys? He sounds quite full on, if you can't leave him to play because he gets too excitable.
Surely that's a normal age gap and the kids all play together anyway?

I think the issue is your and your children OP not the other parents, they dont seem ready for regularly playdates to be working properly.
I've got 4 kid 11, 8, 4 and 3 and they all have always had individual playdates with children of both sexes. Younger or older siblings sometimes join in the playdate when theres a close age gap or they're doing something that needs more than two people if not I do something else with or put them in a different room to entertain themselves. If your son cannot play for 10 minutes then my kids wouldnt want to invite him round tbh, they all like playing without my input they would hate for me to have to join in.
DD.

Maybe people decline play dates as they aren't able to reciprocate?

My sons have never sat down with crafts at a play date. They did things like play football, jump on the trampoline, run around with light sabers.

Macaroni where have I said I owe any return playdates?
In fact I owe just one and have not had the child in question over before so have been waiting till one parent can pay attention to both DS and the playdate child, as it's an unknown quantity.

Fairies he is quite full on and we are awaiting SEN assessment but it's a year's wait.
It hasn't stopped him making friends at school, he comes home talking about them, the teachers agree that he plays with them at school, I see them playing at the park, and he wants to have them over, but then we can't arrange it.
But as you can see from this thread I am not the only one whose different aged children can't play nicely together.

Typical scenarios:
3 year old tries to play with 5 year olds. 5 year olds are running around pretending to be pirates/dinosaurs/I have no idea what. 5 year olds make roaring noise, with no malice intended, it's part of the game. 3 year old cries. 5 year olds get excited about this and make louder roaring noise. 3 year old cries more and wets herself.

5 year olds start pretending to be pirates/dinosaurs. Visiting 5 year old decides that X toy looks attractive and starts playing with it solo (no, it's not possible to hide ALL the toys when a child comes over). My 5 year old feels left out and tells visiting 5 year old not to/tries to take it away/tries to play with it solo as well. Words are had. One of the 5 year olds comes and requires intervention. I suggest a different toy where they can play with half of it each, or a board game. They play this for 10 minutes, one of them breaks some "rule", rinse and repeat.

Where have I said I owe any return playdates?

Ermmm in your OP?

I owe 3 or 4 now I think

Drspouse penultimate para of your OP. You owe 3 or 4 now, you think.

5 year olds playing pirates or dinosaurs, or not managing to finish a board game, or arguing over a toy is completely normal. You don't have to invite them over.

Urgh sounds like a nightmare - I'd leave the playdates for a few years.

upsideup you may be right but the other parents (who have just one DC in this age range) seem to expect to intervene when they have a friend round, so he doesn't seem so unusual among his peers.

That's why it seems to be a lot easier for the younger DCs to make friends when they are the youngest by quite a margin or the only one in a family.

So maybe he isn't ready - but he's actually 6 now so I'm not quite sure what age to expect him to be ready, nor what to tell him when he asks to play with A, B or C repeatedly.

jaime maybe that's true but it seems odd that all the parents of boys can and all the parents of girls can't.

I agree it's not accurate to say that mums of girls are smug - but parents of girls definitely seem to take a different attitude to my DS than parents of boys - as I say to the extent of none of the parents of girls accepting playdates at all (though I know they have them with other girls) and I think so far all the parents of boys that I've asked, having my DS over.

I owe 3 or 4 now I think.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to judge/ take offence at some parents for not accepting playdates or inviting your son, when you owe several return playdates yourself?

where have I said I owe any return playdates?
In fact I owe just one

I hate this concept of 'owed play dates.' It's bonkers: I don't invite children over, expecting to be owed a play date at theirs.

By "owing" I mean that it's our turn (they had my DS last) rather than they have all had my DS over and I've never had theirs.

So in most cases I have had their DS over before. It has proceeded as above. Both boys have begged to do it again. I have needed large quantities of gin.

There doesn't seem to be any other way for my DS to make friends out of school time than by having playdates, and he does still ask to see his preschool friends - again that's really hard to do with DD tagging along, and again they are mainly either youngest/only siblings.

Hama beads hollow laugh
Children playing in a single room in the house and listening to a parent popping their head round the door without running all over it and needing to be chased out of rooms they aren't supposed to play in double hollow laugh

Maybe I'm being unrealistic and "spirited" children aren't allowed to have friends, ditto older siblings of preschoolers. I'll be waiting till he's 18 if I am waiting for DS to not be "spirited" though.

Gosh, we just did the playdates anyway! DS2 wasn't that terrible! 😂

I've had to organise DS's friends coming over for tea when he was aged 7ish - 11ish and I had a toddler as well. It was a bit tricky ensuring the older kids could play without the toddler trying to join in every two seconds, but also letting the toddler feel like part of the fun without being flattened, scared or shouted at by the older ones.

But I think the more you grit your teeth and do it (and deal with the extreme noise!) the easier it gets. The toddler learns how to play with the bugger kids without irritating them, and the older ones who do t have younger siblings do learn how to be more patient with them eventually.

DS1 is 12 now. Some of his friends have younger siblings, some have older ones which he has to negotiate with at their house. And some are only children, but they now always say hi to DS2 in the street and make an effort to include him a bit when they come round here.

(I agree that was unclear. There is one child who has had DS over but we've never had him. I wouldn't want to accept/suggest a playdate between those two unless it's at ours as that seems unfair on the mum in question. The others are boys where DS has been to theirs and vice versa so it's a bit more even but I still don't feel happy suggesting he goes to play at theirs unilaterally if they've had him more that we've had their DS).

I live near a park, so would often just take everyone there to play if the weather was good. Toddler kept busy as he needed my help with climbing/slides/swings - bugger kids freer to charge and climb around without mine or DS2's interference. And an ice cream from the van for everyone afterwards. Everyone's happy!

they now always say hi to DS2 in the street and make an effort to include him a bit when they come round here.

Thankfully some of DS' friends are like that which is very sweet!
(One of them however just imitates DS and hugs her very vigorously which she'll take from her brother but which terrifies her from another child!)

Roomba we ALWAYS go to the park if it's nice but I can't guarantee the weather sadly...

OP are you over thinking this?!

More politics to play dates than in a big corporate?

The only friend DS1 has that has 4 younger siblings, including a baby, does tend to invite him there for 90% of their play dates actually. His mum doesn't drive and struggles to get them all ready/out to come and collect her DS1 (offered to drop him back and do when he comes here). They all cry and complain they want to come too if he comes to mine, so she's very happy to have DS there as it's no extra trouble and saves tantrums. But that's something we talked about right when she first invited him over to play and it has worked well even though I felt guilty at first! Also, I would happily invite whole brood if they'd all fit in my tiny house, but it would be rather a squash and she'd have to stay due to the baby.

When DD (only child) has playdates with classmates who have younger siblings the little one just comes along too. They either

All play nicely together (occasionally)

Little one plays with me and other mum (sometimes)

Little one amuses themself with my DDs toys while both mums chat and drink tea and supervise.

As I can't have more children it is fun to play with a toddler. They are always welcome in my house

Why would you think you can't go because your youngest can't join in the older ones games? Surely you wouldn't be expected to turn up without your toddler

I'm a mum of 2 DDs, but I don't think I'm smug, that was a judgemental comment. I suspect there may be an issue with your DS being too full on when playing with other children. I've had that issue with DD1, who's like that and finds it difficult to make close friends.

But there is also the issue that a lot of girls at that age don't want to play with boys, so it may not be personal at all. A lot of boys that age don't want to play with girls.

I found that it's possible to try too hard to arrange play dates for your DCs. They will decide themselves if they want to have a friend come to their house for tea. It works better to arrange to meet up at the park or soft play.

When DS2 started school the playground ‘divide’ was between parents who already knew each other and parents who didn’t. Did obvious reasons, people chatted to others they knew.

Over time this ‘divide’ disappeared because we all got to know each other. Now in Y4 I couldn’t say there was any kind of divide between parents at all. There’s not even a childminders/parents divide. People just talk to the person standing next to them.

He’s going to middle school next year and parents aren’t even allowed on the grounds. You have to drop them at the gate.

MissWilmott
Sounds like you set up playdates with both parents present. Unless I offer to go over to the other child's house, this doesn't seem to be the norm here. If I invite the other child, we have him alone; the invitation to another child's house is for my DS though I could say "oh I'm free too I'll come with DD" that doesn't seem to be the norm/expected.
I hint that I find it hard to have both boys and DD together on my own and therefore X day would be easier because DH will have DD or she's at an activity, and the mums never say "oh I'll come too".

Lizzie it seems odd that the girls will play happily with my DS at the park but don't want to play with him at their/my house?
I just hate this "single sex friendship" thing anyway. Maybe I'm the only one who ever asks a girl over to play with their DS, and the mums are reeling with shock?