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Original poster

Tutors for SATS?

103 replies

Flatpackjackie · 14/04/2018 22:15

I don't understand this. I thought SATS results were really just to check that the school's meeting expected standards? Why would you book private tuition for your child, to prepare for them?

Two families I know are doing this, but the two children involved are achieving way above average in Maths and English.

Am I missing a trick here? Thanks

OP posts:
whileStatement · 15/04/2018 16:03

I spent 10 years at university basically studying grammar so probably do better than most at these questions but I do despair at a lack of understanding of grammar.

I'm no fan of prescriptive language but when an adult is confused by subject-verb agreement (or similar) I do find myself wondering what went wrong in their education.

Surely you could have guessed what a fronted adverbial was with common sense?

ineedamoreadultieradult · 15/04/2018 16:09

whileStatement what went wrong is at various tiimes, various governments decide to fiddle with the curriculum. I went to school at a time where it was decided that children did not need to have knowledge of verbs, adjectives, nouns etc never mind more complex grammar. We went to secondary school not knowing a thing about grammar and sending the foreign language teachers demented!

2cats2many · 15/04/2018 16:13

The secondary that my DD will go to next year is also very mobile and movement between sets occurs every term based on tests.

They also set based on their own CATS rather than the SATS at her primary. I'm not saying that SATS don't matter, just that, personally, I'm not getting het up about them.

My DD is taking her grade 3 Clarinet exam next month and has spent the Easter holidays practising for that and has hardly thought about SATS. I call it a welcome distraction.

Frogletmamma · 15/04/2018 16:16

Sorry while but when I went to school adverbs weren't mentioned, let alone fronted adverbials.

Feenie · 15/04/2018 16:23

That's because the term 'fronted adverbial' was invented specifically for the new curriculum. It didn't exist before.

KatherinaMinola · 15/04/2018 16:23

Well, this thread is certainly an eye-opener! Thanks for starting it, OP.

while, you must know that "fronted adverbial" is a recent jargon phrase? I studied five languages at school and university and never encountered it. I think it gained currency in the last ten years.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 15/04/2018 16:24

Our primary (naice middle class village) put a great deal of emphasis on the SATS and worked the kids pretty hard. While I'm not aware of anyone having formal tutoring, the school ran a couple of workshops for parents explaining stuffed about the SATS and how we could access revision materials and help our kids with their learning.

My kid was fine and didn't require extra help but some parents went all out on the work at home.

And yes, the kids were super competitive when the results came out, though the adults tried to downplay, and the SATS (and CATS) were used for high school setting.

whileStatement · 15/04/2018 16:25

I went to school at a time where it was decided that children did not need to have knowledge of verbs, adjectives, nouns etc never mind more complex grammar.

Sorry, it was a rhetorical question but I agree with the answer anyway.

I think the argument is muddied when English is L1. When I went to school there was a massive different between public and private schools and their teaching of grammar, parts of speech etc and a lot of this was down to the former also teaching classics.

Even "complex" grammar really isn't difficult to either understand or teach. One of the big issues is that those teaching it now have the same problem you have; identifying phrases, clauses, parts of speech etc are not second nature.

whileStatement · 15/04/2018 16:31

KatherinaMinola

while, you must know that "fronted adverbial" is a recent jargon phrase?

Fronting is not new. Fronted adverbial seems like a logical expansion of two well know and well understood stylistic or grammatical concepts.

Use of fronted adverbials does not mean your an adept linguist or have a deep understanding of language devices but it is a fair test of whether a person knows several relevant concepts.

KatherinaMinola · 15/04/2018 16:36

Yes, it's a logical expansion and when it was introduced as terminology (fairly recently) I immediately knew what it was. But my point is that as a phrase it will be new to most parents, so no surprise if they don't recognize it.

CuboidalSlipshoddy · 15/04/2018 16:37

Use of fronted adverbials does not mean your an adept linguist

Oh, the irony.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 15/04/2018 16:37

Lunatics

Feenie · 15/04/2018 16:38

Again - 'fronted adverbial' is a term invented for the 2014 English curriculum.

KatherinaMinola · 15/04/2018 16:41

Oh right, even more recent than I thought then Grin (Not a primary school teacher.)

whileStatement · 15/04/2018 16:44

KatherinaMinola

Why are you different to most parents?

Feenie

But both 'fronting' and 'adverb' were invented at some point. What's your point?

Identifying a fronted adverbial demonstrates key grammatical ability. It shows that a student understands what an adverb is and how it relates to a sentence or parts of it and it shows they know how these rules can be 'bent' for stylistic effect.

Use of fronted adverbials does not mean your an adept linguist

My favourite part of the thread.

KatherinaMinola · 15/04/2018 16:47

As above while, I studied five languages at school and university. So I could take a wild stab at what "fronted adverbial" might mean!

whileStatement · 15/04/2018 17:01

Missed the connection. Sorry.

I think your "wild stab" is likely to be bang on the money. Helped by your studies but I'd have thought that common sense would give you a very good indication of the meaning without being (impressively) pentalingual.

Feenie · 15/04/2018 17:05

My point is that the term didn't exist until the 2014 curriculum. Confused

whileStatement · 15/04/2018 17:09

Oh. Well mad (?)

Hmm
whileStatement · 15/04/2018 17:10

made

DaphneduM · 15/04/2018 17:10

Unless things have changed massively since I left education a few years ago, SATs results were treated with scepticism and we did our own CATs tests in year 7 which informed us on the children's ability.

Frogletmamma · 15/04/2018 17:15

I have never heard of fronting and if pressed would have thought a fronted adverbial was one with a prefix eg unhappily.

carefreeeee · 15/04/2018 19:36

I got a in gcse English and am a professional writer (and speak 4 languages). I don't know what an adverb or fronting is (80s child), and it's not a problem for me. Most parents probably barely know the difference between your and you're, so there's not much chance of them knowing this.

MaisyPops · 15/04/2018 19:49

DaphneduM
Skepticism is still ever present.
Who seriously thinks one week children have been drilled for at the expense of most other subjects is an accurate reflection of ability.

We have children in y7 at expected standard who can't independently use commas for clauses or semi colons. They tell us how they had help with writing and list all the things done last year.

Then add in that from May very little proper work seems to he done between sports days, parties, PE days, rehearsals for thr leaving show, residentials. Is it any wonder many children arrive to y7 unable to do the basics independently?

Twofishfingers · 16/04/2018 08:20

That's not the point though. There is an exam- we might not like it but there is. We don't like the content of the exam, it's all a bit pointless, we all agree that knowing what a fronted adverbial is will not make you better at English. But unless the curriculum changes (which it will), we have to put up with it. Our children will be tested on it. So in my opinion, it's best to go with it and support them in their learning and help them meet expectations set by the curriculum.

The curriculum changes all the time, and in two years' time they probably won't have to learn so much pointless grammar. In the meantime, they do. So there's a few options - put pressure on the government to change the curriculum, take children out of the SATS, protest, etc. Or leave the children learn it all at school without extra support at home, or finally, give them extra support at home either from the parents or with outside help such as tutoring.