Tutors for SATS?

[Flatpackjackie]

I don't understand this. I thought SATS results were really just to check that the school's meeting expected standards? Why would you book private tuition for your child, to prepare for them?

Two families I know are doing this, but the two children involved are achieving way above average in Maths and English.

Am I missing a trick here? Thanks

It’s quite disheartening reading some of these comments.

I’ve pretty much kept SATs low key with Ds, not pushed him, he’s had homework from school, past test papers etc. The English paper he brought home before Easter was pretty difficult and I had to google quite a bit myself. Maths homework he’s done better on but still, he can make silly mistakes which could just make his SATs score not really a reflection on his ability.

To think that this score will follow him throughout Secondary school and possibly keep him in the lower sets, which are ‘almost impossible to move up from’ just from a few papers he sat in Y6, has really shocked and saddened me.

Still, I would rather Ds move into Y7 with scores reflecting his natural ability rather than an inflated score, causing him years of stress! Is that wrong?

We have had no SATs papers or revision sent home from school whatsoever. The dc have done a weekly 10 minute SPAG sheets, but that's it.

The reason teachers are panicking and setting up booster sessions is to prevent the school from rating badly.

I don't get the attitude that all children who have tutors have an 'inflated score'. I don't have the skills to help my kids through sats (especially English, as it's my second language) so DH helps them with homework, extra papers, online stuff for maths, etc. It's just extra homework. It's fine, children can learn to work a bit harder and get used to doing exams. They will have GCSEs and other exams in secondary schools. Are they inflated because the children revise at home?

Honestly we don't do much at all, just a few extra 30 minutes, twice a week. It's no big deal. But it does give them extra skills and confidence. Teachers with 30 pupils might not notice that one specific child is struggling with, say, multiplying fractions or fronted adverbials. We can help then at home. We're not 'inflated their sats score', they will integrate the knowledge and be able to use it at secondary school.

If a school is decent then sets should be easy to move out of.
DD1 moved maths set every single year at secondary.
Her target from SATs was a C, her final predicted by the school was an A (which she missed in the end by just 6 marks).

Any school that sets (or worse streams) based on y6 SATs and doesn't frequently reassess is doing a poor job by its pupils.

However I have nothing against tutoring in y6. I think it is a bit pointless for the high achievers, but for the less able it can get them to a better starting point for secondary. That said, it needs to continue after SATs, (and even across the summer holidays). So many schools 'front load' their Maths and English effort that they do little in those subjects after May, leaving an effective 3 month gap before secondary.

Twofishfingers The problem is a) top sets in some schools can be the largest as it is assumed all the students can work well and grasp things quickly. If you are placed in too high a set you can actually go backwards as the pace is too fast, and its not noticed that you are not keeping up.
b) children who get too much homework and pressure can develop mental health issues - there is a lot of it about
c) children doing too much work outside school at primary school can find secondary boring
d) children doing too much work at primary school may become demotivated at secondary. If you can force a 10 year old to work, it is just about impossible for a 15 year old.

"If a school is decent then sets should be easy to move out of. "

Easier said than done simply because there's often going to be a gap between what's been covered or not according to the different sets.

Your daughter went from a C to a B. Hardly far off as predictions go.

She went from a C to a very high B (not a just scrape a B).
She started y7 in set 7 and by y11 was in set 3.

A decent school will have overlap in teaching so that children can climb sets. No school should be putting a child into sets based on y6 SATs (or y7 CATs) and not giving them the opportunity to move up or down.

It is inexcusable for a secondary to have a system whereby, if a child comes up from a poor primary and thus does poorly in SATs, that child cannot climb up sets during secondary.

I do think that when looking at secondary schools, people should ask about setting policies so they know what they are getting in to.

And for people who have the misfortune to have schools with inflexible setting, I can quite see why they want/need their child to do the very best they can possibly do in their SATs.

not all schools are decent though or they are great at some things but not others

there are something like 3500 state secondary schools in the uk - my sons is in the bottom 150 for results with a progress score that is 'well below average' and red on the ofsted dashboard

I've never heard of a secondary school that uses SATs for setting. They administer their own CAT tests because they give a better indication of a child's true ability.
Also, to the PP, who claimed once in s low set you never get out, I don't agree with this either. DS1's inner city secondary has quite mobile sets- he has moved up... and moved down....

I've never heard of a secondary school that uses SATs for setting

Well you have now! Quite normal comprehensive.

TeenTimesTwo

Well, you certainly sound like you have a lot of experience working in schools.

She went from a C to a very high B

Yes, she went up a grade. I get it.

They administer their own CAT tests because they give a better indication of a child's true ability.

I have never heard of one that does CATS I think the SATs are more common as previously said because of Target grades and attainment 1 and progress 8.

My school and my partner ms both do our own tests as we know some primary schools give a lot of input. So we base it on a combination of both .

However schools results and teachers pay rises are all taken from the SAT grades. As wrong as that is.

Yes. She went up 1 grade.

She also went up 4 sets, which was my main point, given the people on here who are saying that at their schools sets are hard to move out of.

And no I don't have experience working in schools. But if our school (a good comp in an all comp area) can have flexible setting that enables late developers to move up, then I can't see any good reasons why other schools can't either. And I still maintain that a secondary that doesn't allow for this is doing badly by its pupils.

The school had at least 7 sets so there's more likely to be an overlap of what's been taught.

We have classes of maximum 18 and 3-form entry. There's much less chance of there being an overlap.

Sets are hard to move out of. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen though. It's hard to run a marathon but millions do so.

A good teacher can differentiate within a set. If a child is moved sets in my school, they usually have tutoring (free, by a teacher) to make the transition easier for all involved.

OK while . I really don't get why you seem determined to pick my posts apart.

But with only 54 children in the whole year, yours is either an exceptional (as in very rare) state school, or a private school. A school with only 54 per year group obviously has very limited scope for setting at all. But presumably, if private, people are choosing to pay for something and are presumably happy about it.

I thought we were discussing standard state secondaries here, given that SATs and progress tables are not usually considered relevant for private schools.

Oh how ridiculous! If a child is bright they will do well without the added pressure. If they are struggling then I’m not sure forcing more of the same will fix it. We home Ed and have done no sats prep at all. My daughter reads a lot and has a love of numbers. I threw last years papers at her a couple of weeks ago and she scored scales scores of over 110 on all areas. I’m not really sure what they are meant to be showing if so many places teach to the test and cram multiple papers down the children before the actual assessment.

Agree with grass pigeons

There are 3500 state secondary schools across England they vary so much especially now they academies.

My eldest school made top 500 297 i think and has 84% gcse pass rate/ great prgress 8 score and outstanding ofsted.
But we very lucky.

I think sometimes the cohort year group can change.
Its true most of middle child's teachers time was spent with the naughty kids or the ones the very bottom of the scale .
Its the lower middle ability and middle average kids that coast and dont always reach their potential as the focus maybe not on them.

Also i guess lot depends on discipline .

I was bit shocked to watch fairly recent episode of educating Manchester the one that focussed on they suddenly realised close to gcses exams from rather late mockw that most of year 11 at saltford comprehensive school would fail and did paniced boooster sessions.
I was like how the heck can they not be tracking how they doing between year 7 and 11and realise so close to end was an issue.
Also the disruptive behaviour i class shocked daughter as would never be tolerated at her school.

Our primary panicked towards the end year 6 teacher in tears early morning booster sessions.
A gentle paced revusion approach throughout the year with A tutor is bettet than last minute school interventions.
I dont have patiance to teach my child a tutor got best results.

Sometimes a tutor can improve condidence and raise an average grade slightly higher.

Yes when comes to gcses sets do matter

Only top sets get to do triple science or futher maths.
When i was at school top english sets di english lot lower sets did English language only so one less gcse.
Also they had foundation papers where top grade was a d intermediate and higher papers maybe thats changed.
They also wuth new gses have less coursework so it all hinges on sets subjects and what papers they sit.

KERALA1
Not harsh at all.

Anyone who complains to school demanding their child is moved up a set when school have clearly said they don't set needs their head wobbling.

Ditto for anyone complaining about wanting to be in set 1 not set 2 when it doesn't (nor has it ever in my experience going back to being a student myself) made a difference.

The only time sets have capped grades is when there were 2 tiers (which was when many of us were at school). Even then you're looking at set making a difference in the summer of y11 right on thr C/D borderline. Most of the parents who would whine about setting (in my experience) didn't have higher/foundation borderline children. They have children who will get an A/A in set 1 or an A/A in set 2. The people who spend most time going on about sets usually have children in the top 3 sets.

A child isn't going to do better because their timetable says set 2 and not set 3. All students need to do to do well is work hard in class, do their homework and revise.

It's the my child is bright and i want the best number on their timetable which makes me and . Usually it's coupled with 'my DC got higher than someone in the set above on one assessment so they should move up'. I generally point out that on one occasion their DC scored lower than another pupil in the set below so applying that logic i should have moved them down months ago.
That's my point. Most complaining about sets is illogical.

"I really don't get why you seem determined to pick my posts apart."

I'm not. I'm not looking for a fight, simply trying to give you an 'educator's' perspective.

It is hard to move children from one set to another. Often there will be a gap in their knowledge and it's usually easier to differentiate within a class than to move them.

Yes, my school's independent.

"given that SATs and progress tables are not usually considered relevant for private schools."

Around 1/3 of our pupils come from state Primary School so it's relevant.

My daughter was lucky enough to get into a selective with no sets. For us SATS are pretty meaningless. And easier than the stuff I taught her for the 11+ last year. She doesn't like exam pressure and beats herself up if she makes any mistakes on the endless tests they do at school. Will be glad when they are over!

PS what exactly is a fronted adverbial!

Frogletmamma

Are you joking?

An adverb or adverbial phrase before the action it describes.

No not joking. Went to school in 70's when grammar was out and free expression was in. My daughter knows what a fronted adverbial is (and picks me up on grammar all the time).

DS's best mate has a tutor for SATS.
I would if I could afford it. DS could do with refining a few things.