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Original poster

Tutors for SATS?

103 replies

Flatpackjackie · 14/04/2018 22:15

I don't understand this. I thought SATS results were really just to check that the school's meeting expected standards? Why would you book private tuition for your child, to prepare for them?

Two families I know are doing this, but the two children involved are achieving way above average in Maths and English.

Am I missing a trick here? Thanks

OP posts:
EsmeMargaretNoteSpelling · 14/04/2018 22:30

They want over 110 on all the scaled scores and greater depth for writing. It’s like some parents want all A*s. They are nuts.

theeyeofthestormchaser · 14/04/2018 22:33

What does over 110 on the scaled scores signify?

hibbledibble · 14/04/2018 22:37

I haven't heard of anyone doing this. Are you sure they aren't having tutors for the 7+ or 11+?

dangermouseisace · 14/04/2018 22:38

Sounds like a complete waste of money. I don’t know any parent who asked what another child achieved. My son didn’t discuss it with other kids either!

Are you sure it’s not grammar school tutoring? If it’s for SATS it would definitely be a parent vanity project rather than for the child. There’s enough pressure on the for SATS from the teachers anyway....

StarUtopia · 14/04/2018 22:41

To ensure that the child gets a decent mark in both and is then placed in a top or second set in high school.

Once you're in a low set, you'll never get out of it!

winterisstillcoming · 14/04/2018 22:45

I used to think that SATS weren't important, but one thing that has made me think twice is the fact that a lot of secondary schools use these to streamline the pupils in the first

Maybe they just don't want their child to fail?

Nanny0gg · 14/04/2018 22:48

My local secondaries do their own testing when the children start.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/04/2018 22:54

If you are talking about year 6 SATs I am afraid they are very important. At my secondary school ( and many others countrywide) targets for GCSE are set based on them. If your child has a low target they will be placed in lower grouo and less will be expected of then. If your child has a higher target and is not achieving it they will be given extra help/after school sessions etc etc. This is because the secondaries are judged on how much progress a child makes from year 6 SATS to GCSE.

I doubt I would get a tutor for my children but I will be finding out more about the SATS in order to help my children prepare and do their best.

Fruitcorner123 · 14/04/2018 22:55

Nanny0gg many do but they will still be judged on the progress their students make using SATS data, their own internal data will not be considered by OfSted

Original poster
Flatpackjackie · 14/04/2018 22:55

Thanks. No, it's not 11+, as it's not a grammar region. Definitely for SATS. I didn't realise that secondary schools looked at the scores.

OP posts:
Cicera · 14/04/2018 22:56

I used to think that SATS weren't important, but one thing that has made me think twice is the fact that a lot of secondary schools use these to streamline the pupils in the first

I don't know any secondaries who rely on the SATS - they know they're really unreliable when it comes to predicting how children perform in secondary.

Some parents (I'm a primary teacher) genuinely don't seem to get that they aren't important for the child and get themselves and the kids really wound-up.

However, if a child is going to really struggle with the SATS (except SPAG, which is fairly useless), then it might suggest they would benefit from some extra help.

YoucancallmeVal · 14/04/2018 23:00

If they are struggling that much, tutoring at this point seems a bit redundant. I'd rather a child went to y7 with staff knowing they found certain things difficult, than teaching to get them through a test. They will either then find y7 hard or require a tutor indefinitely to keep up.

Cicera · 14/04/2018 23:01

This is because the secondaries are judged on how much progress a child makes from year 6 SATS to GCSE.

You might get some backward schools who still use the SATS for setting. Every one I've visited or known kids go on to don't use the SATS data for predicted grades, just OFSTED for 'expected' grades to check progress.

Teacherontherun · 14/04/2018 23:04

Cicera, unfortunately secondary schools DO use them as a predictor of GCSE results as they have no choice. Yes they can do internal assessment etc but ultimately secondary is judged on primary. It's one of the many reasons there's some animosity between the two sections. Primary school are pushed to get the best possible results to show the school have achieved, often at the unavoidable expense of the arts and other subjects. Pupils for months are taught how to pass the tests and then secondary school have these hugely inflated results for pupils that put the teachers under extortionate pressure because despite the best efforts Joe Blogs that had 1-1 coaching to get a high score in the SATs is just not a higher kid at GCSE. It's the system at fault and it is so unfair on everyone!!

winterisstillcoming · 14/04/2018 23:06

Agree with teacherontherun and fruitcorner. I'm a primary governor and Trustee of a MAT, and I am aware that

MaisyPops · 14/04/2018 23:06

I'd rather a child went to y7 with staff knowing they found certain things difficult, than teaching to get them through a test. They will either then find y7 hard or require a tutor indefinitely to keep up.
This ^^
We get some students getting high SATS because home and school have drilled for them. Then they get to secondary and find they aren't top all the time and the work is difficult because they've got so used to being told they are top and doing lots of sats prep. Then their reports go home showing they've not made expected progress in y7 (because although they were working hard, they were never really that strong in y6. They are on track for a child at expected standard but behind for a greater depth child)

Almost all the dips i see in y7 are from those drilled for sats to get the top band.

Twofishfingers · 14/04/2018 23:09

another viewpoint is that some children do gain exam techniques through private tuition and can become more confident during exams as a result. We didn't get a tutor for our DSs but DH is a primary school teacher and did go through some of the questions and hurdles they had, including some issues with grammar (I couldn't help at all as English isn't my first language). I do think that a few sessions with a private tutor can do good, increase confidence, help with some problems the child may have.
Our local secondary school did stream the children based on SATS results for maths, and set their targets for English on sats results too.

KERALA1 · 14/04/2018 23:09

We were spun the line that SATs not important. Bollocks. All the setting at secondary done on these results and hard to get out of lower sets. If we had known this we would have tutored in maths. Wised up for DD2.

winterisstillcoming · 14/04/2018 23:13

posted too soon, and luckily our Primary headteacher understands that pushing pupils over the line just for statistics means that a child may not get the additional support they need when they get to secondary. In the old system a primary school grade 6 was not considered the same as a secondary one and it was a bone of contention then.

All secondary schools' progress measures are based on the SATS results and many do use them for differentiation. I know that ours do, which altered my view of the impact of SATS on my own children.

csa26 · 14/04/2018 23:21

I’m a tutor, and I used to work placing tutors with families so when people phoned wanting a tutor it was me they spoke to. Lots of parents looking for tutors for SATS, it’s one of the reasons some parents and teachers are so frustrated with them because unfortunately although they were designed to assess schools they’ve become yet another tool for assessing the child. The only way to make SATS assess the school only would be by anonymising the exam papers.

On the plus side, as twofishfingers said: the comment I hear as a tutor again and again from parents is that while I’m usually engaged with a specific exam/subject in mind, the child has gained in confidence in all subjects and learned to believe in himself much more. Obviously this depends on the tutor, but personally I think in the long run this will be of much more use to my pupils than a grade 8 in maths GCSE 🙂

Beeziekn33ze · 14/04/2018 23:27

csa26 - is there any serious attempt to anonymise SATs papers? Sounds an excellent idea!

HarrietSchulenberg · 14/04/2018 23:32

It's amazing how many tutored SATS kids flounder horribly when in Y7 and the tutor is no more. If you're going to tutor for SATS be prepared to carry on with that scaffolding for at least another 6-8 months, and be prepared for a (hopefully temporary) dip when it's removed.

Shrodingerslion · 14/04/2018 23:38

They are important. It’s not right but that’s the way it is.

How do people think progress 8 is worked out? Based on progress of average SATS scores.

I have also heard many conversations ‘ we can’t put him in set 1 he only has a target grade of a 5’

The child would have to be very exceptional to move into top set with a target of a 5. Yes it’s possible but very rare.

It’s sad that kids and schools are judged on what they did at age 10 and 11.

KERALA1 · 14/04/2018 23:39

Our tutor is amazing. Dd gone from 2 years behind in maths, under confident wreck to cheerful upbeat pupil middle of her class in a year. She used to cry that she didn't understand. That hasn't happened since we got the tutor a year ago. Genuinely best £ ever spent. Happy to pay all through secondary if necessary. Plus dd loves the sessions and has really "clicked" with the tutor. "Friday is my favourite day because I see x". Wish I had had one.

BarbarianMum · 15/04/2018 00:28

If my child couldn't manage the content of the maths SAT I would get a tutor (or teach them myself) because there is nothing in there that they don't need to know.

It is possible that they are hiring tutors to make sure their chilsren make academic progress in Y6. Ime once you've got the SATS stuff covered you tend to get ignored whilst the focus is getting more students over the 100 mark.