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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think if you want the legal protection of marriage then get married

947 replies

Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 12:19

I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about how widows allowance isn't paid to couples that weren't married, even if children are involved.

Aibu to think marriage is essentially the legal joining of people and if you want to be recognised legally and finacially then you should get married.

I guess the supreme court will ultimately decide if I am being unreasonable. But i can't help but think people dont realise the legal security marriage offers and they should.

OP posts:
PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 15:07

Can they not just take away civil partnerships and just have marriage for everyone?

That might be what happens.

Then surely there wouldn't be an assumption that a married woman is the wife property of a man.

There isn't. There hasn't been among right thinking people, married or not, for a very long time. I am not my husband's legal property. It's not possible to own people any more.

Traditionally marriage was more about protecting assets, avoiding tax and protecting children's rights than about romance anyway wasn't it.

Yes. The idea that it's not necessary because it's a contract of love is a new concept, and a very very wrong one.

I know that marriage in the past has been a very sexist institution but can't it be updated to reflect a more modern society?

It has been. If it really were so anti-woman and pro-man, more men would be keen to do it!

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/04/2018 15:09

"It is possible to reproduce most of the "benefits" of marriage without getting married. Fortunately".

It can be done but how many couples actually bother to do this?. Most people think it will never happen to them. It can be very expensive and time consuming to implement with a Solicitor, so expensive infact that its often not done and men can be just as ignorant re the legalities and lack of rights in cohabiting relationships. Even doing this does not bring about all the legal protections that marriage brings by any means.

Upon death of the other person where the couple is not married they are still seen as separate individuals who are not related to each other and are treated as such. Those people still do not get the right to open Letters of Administration for the estate, you cannot choose a headstone and the widows allowance is still not paid out to unmarried women even if there are children involved. Many women as well can and do end up in dire financial hardship with them also being reliant on the kindness of his parents.

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 15:10

Should these relationships be disregarded?

If the two people involved in them have not gone to a registered venue and legally declared that they both wish to be married then those relationships should not be considered legalised. Otherwise I could just waltz in anywhere and marry myself to anyone without his consent.

Marriage can cost £250 I think. Nobody is unable to scrape this together somehow over many years for something they really want. Sorry, but they're not. If you decide to put off the protections until you can have the day you want, that's your choice but you're not protected until that day. Why not have the cheap simple ceremony and then the big party in due course? Like lots of people do?

DioneTheDiabolist · 14/04/2018 15:10

I see those who don't want marriage because of the trappings/connotations as kind of the same as those who get married for the wedding. Both naive regarding the law, choosing instead to believe that it's all about the dress/name changing/giving away the bride/a party.

Marriage is a witnessed lawful contract which both parties sign. No need for anything else if you don't want it. No need to even tell others if you don't want to.

Original poster
Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 15:11

*SharronNeedles

Okay, say your engaged but something happens just before your wedding... Or say you've been with someone for years and have never been able to afford a wedding but you'd rather save until you can the one you want rather than just the legal part in a bland and souless office... Should these relationships be disregarded?*

Well they aren't disregarded. But yes they shouldn't be recognised legally.

If you want to wait and have a big expensive fancy wedding at the expense of your legal protection then that is your choice.

Its time to seperate weddings from marriage?

OP posts:
Bluelady · 14/04/2018 15:11

The marriage v civil partnership argument drives me crazy. Why, when marriage for same sex couples was legalised, civil partnerships weren't just scrapped is beyond me.

And, as for the "we can't get married because we wouldn't want anyone to know" line, it's been explained countless times that registry office staff are happy to witness a marriage but it still keeps getting repeated.

At the end of the day, either you want the legal protection that only marriage can confer on heterosexual couples or you don't. You can't have your cake and eat it.

corcaithecat · 14/04/2018 15:11

Marriage is an outdated concept.
I got married for the legal protection it afforded me as the SAHM to our DC. I wish I didn't have to do it as I really don't believe in marriage and would rather simply be two people sharing parenting duties etc.
It's crap that there's isn't a better system for supporting couples in 2018.

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 15:12

Marriage is an outdated concept.
I got married for the legal protection it afforded me as the SAHM to our DC.

These two sentences do not belong together.

Sophiesdog11 · 14/04/2018 15:14

MaureenNervosa I always thought that if the surviving partner could still pay the mortgage, they would still be able to remain in their home - would this not apply if not married?

The response given by NewYearNewMe18 is partially correct, but it depends how the house is owned legally.

If owned as tenants in common, the NewYear answer applies, so if you are not married your DPs % (usually half) would go to next of kin on death ie parents, children etc unless left to you in a will.

If joint tenants, both of you own the house jointly so you would get it automatically on death, regardless of a will.

The link below will hopefully help you

www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership

IAmWonkoTheSane · 14/04/2018 15:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 15:15

Dione,please don’t talk down to me
I completely understand the financial & legal implications of not being married
And being a capacitous adult I weighed up the pro/con and arrived at a fully informed decision
And it was fuck all to do with dresses,or flowers

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 15:15

You remember that scene in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, where Alan Rickman (I think) is trying to force Maid Marian to marry him, and is holding his hand over her mouth to prevent her from protesting?

That's basically why you need witnesses.

Honestly, they have devised this to try to make sure that the people involved actually want to do it. A forced marriage is not legally binding. If you can prove you were forced or coerced you can annul it.

pigsDOfly · 14/04/2018 15:15

No one's judging anyone SharronNeedles, but marriage is a legal matter, it's got nothing to do with emotions or love. It's no different from any other legal document. It confers certain rights on the two people who sign it.

No one can claims those rights if they haven't signed the legal contract, in the same way that you can't claim rights to a lot of other things unless you sign the required documents.

Kokeshi123 · 14/04/2018 15:16

"I don't usually quote Ally McBeal, of all things, but I do remember a time when a female judge was upset because her partner wouldn't marry her. He said it was meaningless and she replied, "It must mean something if you won't do it.""

I am stealing this one. Brilliant.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 15:17

A capacitous adult with a iffy autocorrect

DioneTheDiabolist · 14/04/2018 15:18

If your choice to not get married has nothing to do with trappings and connotations then my post is not referring to you Lipstick.

Jaxhog · 14/04/2018 15:18

I agree and YANBU. Should be part of basic life-skills at school. (It aught to be something parents teach their children, but many don't know this either)

Kokeshi123 · 14/04/2018 15:19

"but you'd rather save until you can the one you want rather than just the legal part in a bland and souless office... "

You don't have to have "just the legal part in a bland and souless office." You can do that part and then have the big wedding a few years later.

I live in a country where religious ceremonies for weddings have no official legal status and the only thing that counts is the signatures in the local ward/city office. Almost everyone gets legally married on a different date to the date of their wedding. It's fine, honestly.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 14/04/2018 15:19

It's just a legal document Its really not, its a whole institution with massive baggage, cultural expectations and prejudices.

It might sound simple to just get rid of CP and deny people rights unless they get married. But the cat is out of the bag and its not that easy to take away peoples rights. There are a lot of people who want these legal protections but dont want to get married and they know CP exist, so they will be fighting for these rights and will keep fighting for them until they get equality.

Chocolaterainbows · 14/04/2018 15:20

VladmirsPoutine

I'd even go so far as to encourage (young) women to always keep their foot in the door of their careers even if at times it means working for a net loss. The days of alimony are well and truly over and it seems spouses can have an almost overnight personality change.
Marriage or not, what I would encourage women to do is to always know and have the capacity to stand on their own two feet if it comes to it.

^^ THIS. 100%

corcaithecat · 14/04/2018 15:20

PoorYorick
Are you being wilfully daft?
If civil partnerships were available to heterosexual couples, I'd have one of those please instead of marriage.
The idea of Marriage is so outdated, it's shocking to me that some women still actively pursue it as an ideal status.
Where's your self respect?

CowesTwo · 14/04/2018 15:21

When I was a teenager and in my early 20s I subscribed to the whole 'it's just a bit of paper' thing. Then I saw what my aunt went through when her partner of 15 years was dying and his parents were his next-of-kin and took over in the hospital, regarding resuscitation, made all the funeral arrangements, headstone wording etc. She was powerless as they weren't married, and if they had been married she would have been his next-of-kin. After that there was a whole other situation regarding their house. There is no such thing as common law marriage.

Jaxhog · 14/04/2018 15:21

I also don't understand the 'I can't afford to get married' argument. It isn't expensive to get married. A big wedding celebration is. If you can't afford a big wedding, don't have one. It doesn't stop you getting married.

deadringer · 14/04/2018 15:22

How can marriage be outdated? Traditional marriages maybe, but a legal contract is a legal contract. I think that the whole concept of 'dream weddings' and romantic proposals has moved too far away from what marriage is really all about. In fact I hate the whole proposal thing, I think it's very sexist and not remotely romantic, I got married donkey's years ago. We decided together to get married and we did, I didn't spend years hoping he would ask me.

NameChanger22 · 14/04/2018 15:22

If I had got married I would have lost my house. I'm so happy I made the wise decision not to marry. Everyone has a different situation.