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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think if you want the legal protection of marriage then get married

947 replies

Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 12:19

I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about how widows allowance isn't paid to couples that weren't married, even if children are involved.

Aibu to think marriage is essentially the legal joining of people and if you want to be recognised legally and finacially then you should get married.

I guess the supreme court will ultimately decide if I am being unreasonable. But i can't help but think people dont realise the legal security marriage offers and they should.

OP posts:
LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 14:49

LoveInTokyo, as I said I’ve never wanted to be married

DioneTheDiabolist · 14/04/2018 14:49

I don't think anyone is threatened by CPs being available to all Walkingdeadfangirl. I do think that given the expense and hassle of passing the legislation, we are more likely to abolish CPs altogether and extend marriage to same sex couples like an equal society should.

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 14:49

Thats actually a fair point...some people dont get married because they don't want the other person to have access to their finances.

That's probably the most common reason for men not wanting to marry. Which is why I'm so suspicious of them.

Its seems like some people are saying "you can have legal protection, but only if you define yourself by the same cultural structure that I do".

It's not cultural, it's legal. You cannot have legal protection if you don't have a legal structure!

This is why this 'debate' (is it a debate when it's a voluntary institution that nobody has to enter?) drives me so nuts. Otherwise intelligent people coming up with complete clangers like this one. I want legal protection, but I don't want to have to sign any legal papers. I want legal protection, but I don't want to have to live within a legal system for it.

There are plenty of good reasons not to want to marry, but you hardly ever see them in these discussions!

TomRavenscroft · 14/04/2018 14:51

Love, that brings us back to the problem of witnesses.

Bluesmartiesarebest · 14/04/2018 14:52

Fusrodah, you don’t have to call yourself a ‘wife’ or change your name. You can also continue to remain known as a partner.

So far, not one person on this thread has given a good reason against getting marriage.

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 14:52

I don't like the word 'wife' with all its connotations, and don't want it applied to me in law.

This is entirely your choice, but if you do actually want the protections of marriage, it is an utterly barking reason.

If you feel that strongly about it, you could always hide the fact that you're married and constantly refer to yourself as 'life partner' or 'sparkly unicorn' or whatever word you like.

VladmirsPoutine · 14/04/2018 14:53

@LipstickHandbagCoffee Yup I certainly am. Underling in as much as she was one of the new cohort of interns back then. I too have been an underling when starting out in different fields Smile. Nothing pejorative about it.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 14:55

it is possible to reproduce most of the "benefits" of marriage without getting married. Fortunately.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 14:55

I’m imagine it as a term harrumphing English mc use about their staff

Flockoftreegulls · 14/04/2018 14:55

My sister's partner died suddenly last year at the age of 49. She didn't get a penny from his estate because they weren't married.
It's been very hard as she is on a low income.
My advice is get married. She would have had a lump sum from his pension and life insurance.

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 14:55

Ok, I will give a good reason for not getting married.

Older couple, second life relationship, kids on either side but not going to be having any together. They want to cohabit but they want to ensure that their kids get their respective estates.

Not getting married is most definitely the best option here.

But it relies upon people choosing to actively legalise their relationship if they want to (as opposed to, you know, being forced into legal contracts by stealth). That's another reason why the 'common law spouse' thing, if it existed, would be extremely hairy. People who really, really don't want to be married wouldn't have the option of a live-in partner.

It's a CHOICE. You do not have to do it. But I really have no patience for people who claim that they're being victimised because they don't have the legal status that they're CHOOSING not to take. And when they want it but are denying it because they don't like the legal terms it involves, or they object to how it existed 500 years ago....ffs.

IAmWonkoTheSane · 14/04/2018 14:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pigsDOfly · 14/04/2018 14:56

It's not childish Walkingdead it's law. If you don't have the legal documents to prove your rights, you can't have the rights.

CP is a different thing and was made law to suit a particular circumstance and particular relationships, so that same sex couples could have something more legally binding than just living together.

If there is already a means by which heterosexual couples can create a legally binding contract, ie marriage, what's the point in parliament going through the process of creating another similar, but slightly different legally binding contract, ie civil partnership, for those who don't want to get married. It makes no sense.

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2018 14:56

"So far, not one person on this thread has given a good reason against getting marriage."
Because I do not want to perpetuate a misogynist convention deeply rooted in the patriarchy. That do you?

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 14:57

So far, not one person on this thread has given a good reason against getting marriage

I’ll give you a good reason Not wanting to get married.simple as that

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 14/04/2018 14:58

So far, not one person on this thread has given a good reason against getting marriage

I never wanted to be married,never wistfully imagined dress,groom etc
It’s patriarchal
I don’t like the social expectations and roles bound up in marriage eg good wife, family monies etc
Wouldn’t want to be a wife or change surname (i know it’s not mandatory)
I grew up in a faith were it was v much expected to get married and marriage was the manifestation of serious relationship. And I’m afraid I never really bought in to it

PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 14:59

it is possible to reproduce most of the "benefits" of marriage without getting married. Fortunately.

Most, yes. The biggest bugbears are the IHT exemption and the distribution of assets (including pensions and compensation for lost earning power in raising children etc) if the relationship breaks down. Marriage can also be dissolved on the grounds of adultery.

It is also possible to change one's will in secret. Although I recently heard about a sort of 'twin will' system where this isn't possible? I don't know about that.

deadringer · 14/04/2018 15:01

I am not in the UK and know nothing about the law so please excuse me if I sound a bit thick. Can they not just take away civil partnerships and just have marriage for everyone? Then surely there wouldn't be an assumption that a married woman is the wife property of a man. Traditionally marriage was more about protecting assets, avoiding tax and protecting children's rights than about romance anyway wasn't it. I know that marriage in the past has been a very sexist institution but can't it be updated to reflect a more modern society?

Original poster
Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 15:02

it is possible to reproduce most of the "benefits" of marriage without getting married. Fortunately.

How? How do you recreate inheritance tax? How do you recreate widows allowance? How do you recreate legal NOK in a foreign country?

OP posts:
IAmWonkoTheSane · 14/04/2018 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VladmirsPoutine · 14/04/2018 15:04

LipstickHandbagCoffee Ah, I see what you mean but that wasn't my interpretation of it; I'd imagine they'd use terms like 'the help'.

But I do agree in hindsight it was a foolish move. I can only imagine that she thought it would never happen to her because they were 'just so in love'.

Original poster
Sofabitch · 14/04/2018 15:04

Just to be clear. I don't care if anyone gets married or not.

It's just the moaning that they cant get widows allowance....well quite because if you never got married you arent a widow

OP posts:
PoorYorick · 14/04/2018 15:04

I never wanted to be married,never wistfully imagined dress,groom

I never wanted to have kids without being married. The rest of it, I didn't care about either. Luckily the dress etc is nothing to do with the actual legality of it.

It’s patriarchal

If this were true, more men would be keener to do it.

I don’t like the social expectations and roles bound up in marriage eg good wife, family monies etc

Ridiculous to deny yourself legal protection because of the stupidity of your friends and family. Besides, if you are the 'lady of the house', you'll find all these stupid sexist expectations are levelled at you whether you're married or not. It's a problem, but it's a separate issue relating more to how women are viewed in general than marriage as an institution.

Wouldn’t want to be a wife or change surname (i know it’s not mandatory)

No. It's not. So it shouldn't be a consideration.

I grew up in a faith were it was v much expected to get married and marriage was the manifestation of serious relationship.

Again, this is about personal associations. It doesn't mean a thing legally.

All this aside, you of course do not have to get married. Nobody does. It's just that IF you did want the legal protections (and you may not, I don't know), none of these are good reasons to refuse them.

pigsDOfly · 14/04/2018 15:06

Don't get married if you don't want to, the reasons are irrelevant, but don't expect the same legal rights that signing a legally binding contract would give you.

It's just a legal document. It gives you certain right in the same way that signing any legal contract will, it doesn't mean you're signing away your, autonomy and your soul.

SharronNeedles · 14/04/2018 15:07

Okay, say your engaged but something happens just before your wedding... Or say you've been with someone for years and have never been able to afford a wedding but you'd rather save until you can the one you want rather than just the legal part in a bland and souless office... Should these relationships be disregarded? If you have a child with someone and own a house with someone you should be able to receive similar recognition of that person you share you life with passes away.
You don't know peoples circumstances, don't fecking judge then