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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Aibu to think Mumsnet has issues with black women

624 replies

Ghanagirl · 14/04/2018 11:51

Just that really, I’ve read really horrible comments about Meghan Markle, Alexandra Burke, Serena Williams talented and hardworking individuals who seem to offend some Mumsnetters simply by being beautiful and successful.
I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

OP posts:
Curiousmoi · 14/04/2018 14:10

@findingmyfeet12
Sorry, I misread the post and thought it was you saying you couldn't stand the sight of her!
I realise now it was Joanne. Thanks

findingmyfeet12 · 14/04/2018 14:11

No problem Flowers

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 14/04/2018 14:11

" By judging me you have said much, much more about yourself."

no, not really, tbh.
Sorry if what i said was upsetting for you..xx

Dolallytats · 14/04/2018 14:12

I have no doubt that there are racist people on this site, it has so many members. However, with the best will in the world I can not see people's colour through an anonymous nickname (or at least most of them)

There is a huge assumption that everyone who has negatively commented on SW, MM etc are not women of colour.

I'm not sure how anyone could know this.

Mightymucks · 14/04/2018 14:13

Just dismissing it off as 'I am not racist' in the same breath as 'I am sick of this white privilege crap' does suggest that you need to go off and have a quiet little think about it.

I have thought about it quite a lot. ‘White privilege’ is a very frustrating concept for a lot of white people, mainly poor ones, because they don’t have it. Nobody would presume to contradict black people’s lived experience of racism, but poor white people aware constantly told they have this privilege despite their own experience telling them that they don’t.

Poor white people often get the worst deals, education for boys being a particular issue. This was mentioned recently by a Labour politician in terms of ‘well it’s all their own fault, they just can’t be bothered’. No politician would dare say that about another group. They’re demonised as chavs and layabouts. In places like Rotherham and Rochdale parents and children were denied proper access to justice and social services on the basis of race.

And yet they are told that they have some sort of nebulous privilege. It’s not really surprising a lot of people take issue with that.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 14/04/2018 14:16

YANBU imo - MN will delete anything that could be classed as 'beyond the pale' in terms of racism but there isn't a good understanding of microaggressions of the kind you describe, and many posters are incredibly defensive about it.
I don't think it's MN itself being racist or upholding racist values.
I think it's to do with the UK being predominantly white, and most white people having some views and behaviours that shore up racism as an institution.
Such as making it clear that women of colour who do well will be criticised far beyond white women who do well, and that criticism will rely on racist cliches such as 'ape-like', 'aggressive', 'pushy', 'angry' etc.

TitaniasCloset · 14/04/2018 14:18

Yes, Mightymucks, I agree with every word of that post and would like to add that when poor white people speak up they are seen as stupid by the white middle classes despite usually having more experience of actually living and integrating -marrying having kids with etc POC. My children are black/mixed race, I have an investment in the society I live in being free from racism, but that's usually thrown in white mothers faces too. I can't win.

Flomper · 14/04/2018 14:21

please show me one thread on MN that describes a black woman as "ape like". Come on! I think you mught struggle to find such rasicm on the likes of reddit or Tumblr, though admitedly i dont go searchin for extrem rascism forums. I've certainly never seen it on MN.

I do hear the odd bit if ingrained rascim still in RL, sadly, but nothing like that. If you live in and around London, it is not "predominantly white" at all and people arent, generally, rascist anymore. Certainly not the young people I come into contact with, though some of their parents are.

soulrider · 14/04/2018 14:22

I've not seen anything on here, but Serena Williams seems to get criticised (completely unjustly I must add) for not performing to a stereotypical version of femininity, i.e. pretty/demure/petite. Rebecca Adlington comes in for similar criticism.

Sadly, some sections of the population only judge a women's worth by how attractive she is. All other achievements are immaterial and this goes for black and white women.

Bluntness100 · 14/04/2018 14:22

Actually the more I think about it the more I think uou are doing black women a huge insulting disservice op. None of us know the demographics of the 12 million members, but what we do know is it's a huge melting pot. As such, millions of black women probably use this site. If the membership was funadamentally racist and myspgynistic you are there fore stating these women are either turning on their own or turning a blind eye to it. They are either part of or or ignore it. Why are you the only one to think the membership has a problem? Why are black women who are members not shouting it from the roof tops?

In addition the media scrutinises this site. We are accused of many things, But we do not stand accused of this. Do you think black women just haven't spotted it? Or do you think just maybe you have a sensitivity issue and are jumping at shadows? That you relate everything to colour and simply cannot see that someone can be critisiced, be they black, white or whatever, for something other than skin colour.

The question you need to think about, is if millions of black women use this site. Why are you the only one to think the membership has a problem and what are you thus saying about those black female members?

SoyDora · 14/04/2018 14:23

Anyone describing a black woman as ‘ape like’ on here would be reported, comment removed and probably banned, surely??

NotACleverName · 14/04/2018 14:24

Is it really that hard to understand that you can be privileged in one respect (your race, if you're white) and disadvantaged in another (if you're poor/lower class/whatever). Jesus fucking Christ this is not difficult.

Original poster
Ghanagirl · 14/04/2018 14:25

Lemontart25
I apologise for calling MM black but she's still a woman of colour and I'm of Caribbean descent born here but my grandfather is white so I'm not sure what your point is

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/04/2018 14:25

MN is a microcosm of society so of course there is racism, both overt and subconscious.

What I have noticed is when a poster asks if a situation was possibly racist, there are a lot of people very invested in telling them why it wasn't and how 'over invested' and 'sensitive' they are. Now, we're mainly women here and we see sexism that's subtle and subconscious and we know is there but men don't... the same is true of racism.

However I do think any criticism of MM is probably not racism. She's not perceived by many as a WoC and Kate, Fergie and Diana all get criticized. And SW generally has support here, doesn't she? I love her and haven't noticed being pissed off by people when her name is mentioned.

So YABU and YANBU.

SoupyNorman · 14/04/2018 14:25

Thereve been quite a few previous threads about racism on MN, with plenty of WOC speaking up, and getting shouted down. Maybe they are sick of putting their heads above the parapet. Maybe they are tired of the emotional labour involved.

FourFriedChickensDryWhiteToast · 14/04/2018 14:26

^ that is true SoyDora..

Maybe it's a woman thing, not a black/white woman thing?

My landlord told me i was 'aggressive' and 'belligerent' the other day because i told him that the gutter definitely needed fixing, and the wet wall in the bedrrom was definitely not my fault....

'Aggressive?' 'belligerent'? really? would he have said that to a male tenant? I doubt it.

turnipfarmers · 14/04/2018 14:26

I’m not surprised as happens in RL but I guess it’s disappointing as Mumsnet touts itself as a more educated network than netmums

Racism has nothing to do with education, you could argue that the wealthy, well educated elite want to keep other races 'in their place' and protect what they have.

That's not my view but I have heard wealthy white people complain about other races 'taking over' and moving into 'our areas' where they 'shouldn't be allowed to live' and saying that they are glad their children go to private school where they mix with 'people like us'

TitaniasCloset · 14/04/2018 14:30

Nota clever name so how does that work in RL?

VladmirsPoutine · 14/04/2018 14:30

@MrsTerryPratchett That's pretty much my view as well. Well said.

MrsDilber · 14/04/2018 14:32

I'm not keen on MM not because of her colour, I think she was determined to be famous through any means and she struck a pot of gold. Serena Williams is a bonafide legend.

I do not see MN as racist in any way, shape or form. YABU.

Bluntness100 · 14/04/2018 14:35

There've been quite a few previous threads about racism on MN

There have been plenty of threads accusing mumsnet members of everything as I said earlier there is one every week.

Apparently we all hate the working class, the middle class, private schools, state schools. People on benefits, labour supporters, Tory supporters, black people, wealthy people, low earners, high earners, people with lots of kids, step parents, single parents, working mums, stay at home mums, part time workers, full time workers, apparently whatever group you can think of the mumsnet massive fucking hates it

But that's not logical is it, because most of those contradict each other. There is literally a thread every single week accusing the 12 million of inherantly having a problem with something.

Every single week.

Flockoftreegulls · 14/04/2018 14:38

I don't read articles about celebrities so I haven't seen the ones you mention OP. I personally haven't noticed it anywhere else on NM, however that doesn't mean I think you are wrong.
I think many white people don't understand what white privilege is and can't recognise it in themselves. They think it's something to do with having more money but it's got nothing to do with that.
A pp mentioned Rotherham and Rochdale, I would argue that the reason the white victims didn't get justice is less about positive discrimination towards the perpetrators and more to do with police prejudice towards the victims. It was about mysogeny a perception that "bad girls" made bad choices what can we do if they are difficult to handle. I don't believe that the police had a view that they couldn't upset a particular community, I think that society has a problem with not valuing these young women and girls and chose to victim blame rather than blame those actually responsible.
To be fair, a lot of the responses on this thread are kind of proving your point,which makes me feel very sad.

TitaniasCloset · 14/04/2018 14:41

So those young girls had no privilege. Not even white privilege.

Xenia · 14/04/2018 14:41

..although "that they are glad their children go to private school where they mix with 'people like us'" in many private schools you get more mixtures of race than in state schools actually so it does very much depend on the school and area I suppose.

I think all all of us can do is try to be fair to everyone and be kind to others. I don't think the UK has anything like the racism or caste systems of some other countries but we always need to be on the look out to make sure people are treated fairly.

Charolais · 14/04/2018 14:46

This racism is really pissing me off. People always mentioning colour/race are the racists. If you had problems with what Obama was doing, and he was a fuck-up, you're racist. You think Markel is a gold digger - well you're racist.

The child I raised mostly in rural America was/is from my first marriage is bi-racial (as is Obama and the Markle woman). He’s 43 yrs old now btw. I noticed two things; to liberal Americans he was a black child to be pitied and/or they wanted to get to the bottom of ‘his struggle’ his ‘story'. To the very conservative farmers/ranchers around here he was just another person to be judged by the content of his character and not the colour of his skin.

By always judging people by their race or skin colour you are the racist and you are putting massive chips on the shoulders of children that some of us are raising to be just plain decent human beings.