To put my career before my child

[Madisonthecat]

Before I get started I’ll start by saying I think I am but really need some advice from the wise women (and men) of Mumsnet.

Currently not working and have been offered two roles which is fantastic, know I’m really lucky.

Role 1 - three days a week, 9-5, public sector job. Pretty straightforward and could do it reasonably comfortably in the time allowed with little requirement for overtime I think.

Role 2 - amazing opportunity, great pay (£15,000 more than role 1) and amazing benefits. BUT.... it’s full time only, will probably require lots of overtime, travel and be pretty stressful day in day out. It’s a sector I love and would really enjoy getting back into.

What do I do? I would love to do role 2 and if I was childless would take it in a heartbeat. But I have a 3 year old and a partner who works long hours in a demanding role too and can’t help feeling that it’s really not in the best interests of my child to take it. My partner will do a few things around the house (cooking) but I definitely do the lions share of housework and 95% of childcare currently. My previous role after mat leave was 3 days a week and worked well for us as a family as I was happy to pick up the slack. We have no family support at all.

This time I guess I feel conflicted because it’s basically a dream job and I feel sad that as a Mum it feels seems you’re forced to choose between a varied, interesting and well rewarded career or putting your children first and taking something less challenging and with less pay but providing a much better work/life balance.

I will miss my child hugely if I take role 2 as it’s also a fairly long commute (1 hour each way) and would have to accept hardly seeing them on weeekdays. What would you do??

Btw I’ve put this in AIBU as I’m after quick responses. Need to confirm either way tomorrow. Help!

Absolutely OldBand. It is possible.

They are not supporting their female partner/wife. They are being a parent just as their female partner/wife is by attending school plays / parents evenings / looking after sick children etc. Assuming that the woman must always drop things to pick up sick children simply perpetuates inequality and forces women and men into pigeonholes that many men don’t want to be pushed into either. If you want things to change you have to ask for change

Employers will accommodate many things for valuable employees if they ask

Yy to this. The point in DH's case was that he was a senior male executive ie. already in a position of considerable power making it quietly plain that being a parent needed to be factored into his work life. This did not mean that he was unprofessional or shortchanging the organisation in any way, but that the assumption that there was inevitably some 'little woman' rushing about doing pick-ups and servicing his career needed to be challenged.

I will remember to my dying day the faces of the rest of the board at some family day associated with his workplace, where DH took our then four year old off to the play area, leaving me to talk to his colleagues. Apparently that this was the way things sometimes worked had not occurred to them.

Best advice I got from a colleague was don’t ask to leave mtg early,just say I need to leave at x time.no explanation
That’s what he does,notifies chair at beginning of his departure.and goes
His rationale is don’t ask,it could get declined.no fuss,no apologies just go

Newbie here and first post but just had to respond to this!

Honestly ladies you are being very shortsighted if you really believe that our DH's can/would be allowed to just disappear from work as and when required to sort out childcare.

Please explain how it would work in my DH's job. He's a brain surgeon BTW. "Sorry about your life saving brain surgery but my son has been sick at school and I have to collect him" running out of the door removing scrubs.

You are quite narrow minded in thinking that this really should be the case for all men and in reality it can't be. Can you imagine if your child was booked in for planned brain surgery and the surgeon suddenly left to pick up his child because his OH was busy?

And yes I do work BTW, PT. However I realise that I am relied upon to be the first port of call to handle child care. I would NEVER expect my DH to leave work to do this. No, he isn't a selfish wife beater or thinks he is more important than me but I am not one of those women who will demand equality at all costs. Yes he cooks, shops, shares chores but I accept his work comes before mine.

Hotdoctor your DH is a brain surgeon who happens to be male The fact that he's a brain surgeon means that he doesn't have any flexibility in his work, this would be true of a female brain surgeon too.

I agree that the partners of those with totally inflexible jobs (although I don't think many of these types of jobs exist in reality) would have to pick up the slack with regards to childcare etc. This is a trusim completely unrelated to mothers automatically putting their careers second, as like I said before the mother may well be the brain surgeon!

OldBand, you and your husband sound great!

how many DH's in reality would be allowed to keep popping out of work to sort childcare

My DH's job did. He wfh. He did it for about 18 months unofficially, then gave up his allocated desk after asking for flexible working. He then worked there for 4 years. Got made redundant now works for a well known bank in the city. It's not as flexible but if a child is sick we take it in turns, and our DD catches anything going. So we were frequently out last year before the asthma diagnosis.

Things are changing in the work place but because of DH's experience I felt brave enough to ask for flexible working in my job after 18 months. I work from home so I can pick Dd up once a week. I take her to school twice a week and and DH takes her to school once a week.

We talk, eat breakfast together practice spellings "one last time" before the test. It's more fun and laid back but I still work full time, still do overtime. This works for my family.

Hotdoctor,you’ve given a v specific example fair enough.but not all neurosurgery time is surgery. What about times he’s doing paperwork, attending a meeting,journal club,he can leave those if required to. The example is a job specific example not a gender specific example. Not all neurosurgeon are make

My dp & I agree if we get the call who’ll go. It’s not expected it’ll be me

Bumpitybumber

Sorry, don't get the emoji with regards to my husband being "a male brain surgeon"

Yes it would be true of a female brain surgeon but the argument here is that men should be doing equal share of child care and I was pointing out that how could this work for my husband.

Rather astounding that you don't think many roles exist where the man couldn't do equal share. Have you really never heard of nurses, doctors, firefighters, paramedics, police, judges (I would like to sentence you for the rape of this lady but sadly my wife has just texted me to say Johnny is poorly. Sorry GTG"

And yes, before you shout, women can do these roles too but we are talking about how men do equal share when in these roles.

Honestly ladies some DH's have jobs that are not in the world of business. Other jobs do exist I promise.

Why don’t you take role 2 and ask for flexi working or a job share?

Honestly ladies you are being very shortsighted if you really believe that our DH's can/would be allowed to just disappear from work as and when required to sort out childcare.

Hot, you are making the odd assumption that it is because your DH is male that he is unable to leave work early because of a sick child who needs collecting, whereas the scenario would be exactly the same for a female neurosurgeon. Who picks up her kids?

The male and female surgeons I know and in one case they are married to one another, and had two children during medical school simply have cast iron childcare (arranging for the unexpected by throwing money at it), and being incredibly organised -- everything from inset days to parents' evenings to class assembly to halfterm is diarised months ahead of time.

Love, thank you. What a nice thing to say.

Yes lipstick I appreciate that and he has left work many times when "doing paperwork" I am just saying he cannot take equal share all of the time as it isn't possible.

I'm not sure why every time someone posts another replies saying "women can do that job too" So silly! Yes we are all adults, we know that!

Oh don’t be so patronising hotdoctor. Usually the only people who wade in calling everyone ‘ladies’ while telling them they are narrow minded are men.

I’m sure most women on here are speaking in broad terms and are fully aware there are instances where it would be impossible to be flexible for child care. But we don’t live in a vacuum. In most cases where theoretically it COULD be possible, it is unheard of and would be looked down upon by employers because there is no expectation from society that men will do so. The internalised mysoginy, evident on here, ensures that it will always be largely men that fulfill the best paying and least flexible roles.

If enough women expected and demanded the same as men and women were not so harshly judged for daring to be a mother and a worker, societel expectations would see employers becoming far more flexible with men demanding flexibility in their working patterns. Where POSSIBLE and BROADLY SPEAKING.

OldB

Please read my post again more carefully. I am not saying that it is because he is a man he can't do XYZ. I clearly said this would also be true of a female brain surgeon.

I'm out of here. You don't want to look at any other situation or listen to any reasoning at all. You just keep banging the same old drum and repeating the same mantra.

Have fun

I am just saying he cannot take equal share all of the time as it isn't possible.

Equal share doesn't mean 'turn and turn about'. It might mean DH does a series, then you do a series - it all depends on the precise needs oand commitments on a given day.

I occasionally take residential visits away with my class. If anything arises then, DH must pick it up, because I can't. Equally, if it's the school holidays, I always pick i up. On any other day,, we compare diaries and decide who takes the hit. That's equality - not equality of 'time' or of 'turns', but equality of 'status of work vs childcare'.

Rather astounding that you don't think many roles exist where the man couldn't do equal share. Have you really never heard of nurses, doctors, firefighters, paramedics, police, judges (I would like to sentence you for the rape of this lady but sadly my wife has just texted me to say Johnny is poorly. Sorry GTG"

And yes, before you shout, women can do these roles too but we are talking about how men do equal share when in these roles.

No, we're countering your assumptions that it is the maleness of these jobs which makes them 'inflexible'. Lots of jobs are, but no one is suggesting that a high court judge of either sex throws off his/her wig in the middle of sentencing and rushes off to the childminder because little Millie has spots. As I said in my last post, you simply need to be incredibly organised, if you are a two-parents-in-demanding-professional-jobs situation, and spend a lot of money on providing emergency childcare cover for this kind of situation, if you don't have (as we don't) friends and family who can help out in an emergency.

Or you have children with someone of either sex who is happy to be a SAHP. DH and I have the first situation, but a very successful female friend of mine has had her husband as a SAHP to their children for the past ten years -- now he is going back to a new career FT, and they are having to renegotiate all kind of issues to do with childcare, pick-ups, emergencies etc.

What point are you struggling to make hotdoctor?
Yes some jobs it’s not always option to unexpectedly leave,I get that. such jobs aren’t solely undertaken by men

in that case of jobs you have cited it v much depends on the moment,when they are reqd to leave

nurses, can & do leave when there’s a family emergency
doctors, can & do leave when there’s a family emergency
firefighters, can & do leave when there’s a family emergency
paramedics, can & do leave when there’s a family emergency
police, can & do leave when there’s a family emergency
judges can & do leave when there’s a family emergency

In all of those jobs it’s not all client facing or sentencing
There are Meetings,paperwork,teaching sessions,journal clubs,CPD that can all be interrupted. I know they can be interrupted

And in instances it can’t be interrupted you make other provisions as to who will pick up. Or you throw money at childcare

Only job I genuinely know that the staff member can’t leave is prison, special hospital setting

So neither a male nor female judge could break off sentencing - so at that point, either the other parent, or another relative, or a paid carer, would have o pick up the poorly child.

However, on another day, the judge's partner might have a specific inflexible commitment, and the judge only has a meeting, so in that case the judge picks up the poorly child - or, again, both simply have a paid carer to do so, if both have the kind of jobs where they are both frequently inflexible at the same time.

What ISN'T true is that one partner with a job with inflexible periods within it = another partner who MUST compromise their own career every time.

Also, IME it's quite frequent that one of us will 'hold the baby' because we are breifly flexible while the other partner isn't - then we hand over in the doorway and the other one takes over. I work closer to home, so I might do an emergency pickup - but DH can work from home on occasion, whereas i never can, so he might take over as soon as he can get home and i will return to work.

You can bet your bottom dollar if the only people from here on that qualified to be brain surgeon were female and in 20 years they were the only people doing brain surgery, A) there would be emergency cover staff, also qualified brain surgeons, on duty to back up in case and B) the pay would be shit.

Yes, so I full time lawyer and my other half full time teacher if there were an emergency we would decide on that day who was best placed to deal with it - eg if I had an important meeting with a client he would do it; if I were just sitting around in the office and could work late that night to make up I could do it. He took children to the dentist for 17 years (in his school holidays) and I never did. I went to every single sports day and carol service and he never could (as he was teaching and as I could put them in my diary a year ahead and then not book work things in for that day).

That’s exactly how you do it,allocate who’s free to go
It’s not a gender thing,it’s anequitable division of tasks & responsibilities thing
I do get school calling me,and on such occasion I direct them call my dp

Madison
Just read the thread with much interest. Mumsnet is such a unique forum. This thread is there for posterity and hopefully in the years to come we will look back with more answers than questions and dilemmas.

Also just to say, on balance you are better NOW with job 2. You can always dila down when you are ready. After you have done this job for 1 our 2 years you will have got out of your system the career progression needs. Plus you will have saved to be more sure and able to fund tour next career break, spend time with DD and find that balanced job that probably not good enough for you today.

Been there, done it. There is a time for everything. You can always dial back once your DD starts school and when you do, you will be genuinely there for your DD.
Congrats, you are an amazing woman!!!

To be fair to hot doctor I can see why she said she was off as in all honesty you did not read her posts properly at all.

She quite clearly said that inflexibility would also be the same for a female brain surgeon and it was not that these roles were only inflexible because they were done by males. I don't think you read her correctly OLDB

LIPSTICK I don't think hotdoc was struggling to make her point I think she made it quite clearly. She even said that yes, her DH had indeed left work on many occasions when he was able.

I think she was trying to say that these roles are more difficult whoever is doing them. She cited men doing them because is it not men we are talking about doing their equal share here.

You all seem to go on and on like a long playing record and fire off answers when you have not even read the post properly.

It's about time MN shut this topic down as it's actually got ridiculous from what I've read.

I wouldn't take role 2. I do see how it's unfair that the woman sacrifices her career. But I feel quite sorry for men that they often don't see the amazing benefits of being at home with their children. Life is about more than work.