pt.2 To find floral tributes being left for Harry Vincent offensive

[lostjanni]

We reached the post limit so if anyone wants to carry on the discussion...

The issue is Bert that you were criticising those rushing to judgement in one direction whilst you did exactly the same thing in the other direction. How is saying he's a murderer who needs to go to trial any better than those saying he shouldn't be arrested and deserves a medal?

Thanks Stitch wierd. But how could she know who she was in RL anyway?

I think your repeated insistence on a trial Bertrand made you sound very cold and Mayer of fact. Apologies as you probably are not in RL but your posts were very black and white

It has become one of the great unsayables but there are individual traveller families who are a real danger to society. Their activities need to be watched, documented and prosecuted to the full extent of the law ad infinitum. Until that happens they will continue to demand all the rights of citizens without accepting any of the responsibilities that entails.

Before I'm accused of being a Fail reader, I will write very clearly that this is not a blanket statement about all travellers. It is about a small number of criminal families who are vicious beyond most people's understanding.

I believe the world will be a better place without this man. It would be a better place without many of the adult males in the family. Without them the women and children would have a chance to live differently. So many women and children (male and female) are harmed by life in the traveller community yet we are supposed to accept their shortened lifespan, poor health and non-existent education because of some ridiculous view that it's just 'their culture.' It's like standing there wringing our hands, watching collective self-harming. Not challenging it because it's their choice to live that way. How could they choose anything different with the upbringing they've had? Without education or anything else that would open their eyes?

It's too late for the adults but it's not too late for the children.

I retracted murder.
I think that there is far too much emotion on this thread. As I said, it's an awful situation which continues to be awful. Competitive outrage is not going to help.

It has become one of the great unsayables but there are individual traveller families who are a real danger to society

Doesnt seem that unsayable at all. Entire threads ranting about how awful all travellers are, such scumbags. I wish it was unsayable.

Alpacinino, Bertrand wanted him to go to trial.

I think some of the emotion stems from posters or their loved ones being on the receiving end of violent crime, anti social behaviour and feeling all too often that the law doesn't do enough. Seeing HVs family repeatedly attempting to intimidate his victims, seemingly with impunity, is the embodiment of that and people are fed up.

Well how interesting that many of us noticed the same points through Bertrand?

That you were more interested in denouncing the pensioner than feeling empathy for him and his wife.
That you wanted him locked up and interrogated then sent to trial.
Maybe you were being emotional after all but in terms of salivating over the pensioners prospective further ordeal.

Yes you replaced murderer with killer. Still pretty unpleasant.

Yes you replaced murderer with killer. Still pretty unpleasant

He did kill someone. I'm sure he himself finds that pretty unpleasant.

BTW this is a silly chat thread on one forum amongst hundreds, thousands.. Nothing that we say or do on here will help or not help anyone. It's just Chatting.

“That you were more interested in denouncing the pensioner than feeling empathy for him and his wife.“

I didn’t “denounce” him. I just did not rush to call him a hero. There is a difference.

Yes he killed someone in self defence. Saying he should go to trial because he is a killer isn't any better than saying he should go to trial because he is a murderer.

“Yes you replaced murderer with killer. Still pretty unpleasant.”

He killed someone. Which is why there had to be an investigation. Obviously it would have been better for everyone if he hadn’t been put in the position of killing someone. I suspect that if asked, he would say that himself- it won’t be an easy thing to live with.

You didn't rush to call him.a hero, you rushed to say he should be charged and sent to trial- how is that any better?

“Yes he killed someone in self defence.”

We didn’t know that. We only had one side of the story.

And I completely agree that it is awful he was put in the position of having to take someone's life- that is entirely the fault of the intruders but horrible for the victims who did nothing but go to bed in their own homes and wake up to a nightmare.

We didn't know that. We only had one side of the story

But that was enough info for you to decide he should be charged

I have to say if I had to kill someone to protect my family or my pets I would. If I found out later the dreadful history of offending and violence that this scum bag had perpetrated I would feel relieved I had prevented anyone else being harmed by him ever again.

Hopefully this gentleman can feel the same way.

we only have one side of the story

Maybe you could ask the police to fill you in with all the details so you could launch a prosecution yourself?

“Maybe you could ask the police to fill you in with all the details so you could launch a prosecution yourself? ”

Now that really is a bit silly. There was obviously loads of evidence that it was self defense otherwise the decision not to prosecute wouldn’t have been one to so quickly.

“Hopefully this gentleman can feel the same way.”

I think it would be quite unusual to feel relieved that you had killed someone, to be honest.

The only evidence available during that first thread was police statements that 2 intruders had broken in to an elderly couple's home and one of them had been killed. Self defence was a pretty logical conclusion to reach in those circumstances even though posters may have rushed to judgement. But how the available information led you to the immediate conclusion that he should be charged and tried I really don't understand.

No I would feel relieved I had protected my family and it was him dead and not us.

I hope the gentleman feels the same.