To wonder why 'family friendly' doesn't seem to include older people

[user1485342611]

Just thinking about a couple of threads recently that really seem to reflect the way society is going in relation to older people. Libraries need more 'families' using them so older people will just have to put up with noise and racket. A restaurant is 'family friendly' so if you don't want to have kids running around and screaming while you're eating 'go somewhere more expensive'. Churches want to be more welcoming towards children so that means that everyone else has to put up with their experience being ruined and drowned out by young children.

There seems to be this attitude in some quarters that anyone who objects or makes any kind of request for a bit of consideration is some kind of tweed wearing 1930s school marm, glaring through her pince nez before going home to her cat.

AIBU to think that it's possible to welcome young people into places while also giving older people equal right to enjoyment of a facility?

I am sick of reading these posts that generalise all young children as screaming brats.

For every young child that is loud and obnoxious, there are 10 other perfectly well behaved children. There are always rude, loud adults but we don’t seem to assume everyone is like that based on their behaviour.

All of those well behaved children can co-exist perfectly with older people.

YANBU at all. My Dad is elderly and unsteady on his feet but enjoys going out for lunch. Pubs with loud music and kids running about make it very difficult for him. Medical waiting rooms with huge play areas and not enough chairs are a nightmare. It appears 'family friendly' really means 'bow to parents with young children and to hell with everyone else'.

Wonderlime nowhere did I say or even imply that all young children are screaming brats. But an increasing amount of parents seem to allow their children to take over in public areas, and that's what I'm talking about.

But what you are asking for is for everybody to conform to what you want to do. There are places for everybody and most people can find what they want, which is as it should be. Nobody should be able to blanket impose their preference on anybody be they elderly people or young families.

I always thought that family friendly basically translated as kids welcome??!

Plenty of pubs, restaurants etc. that don't allow children - I've yet to see one that turns away older people?

But apparently an ‘increasing amount’ are taking over? Really?

It’s not clear what you want - are you suggesting children shouldn’t be welcome in a library? That restaurants should prioritise ‘older people’? How would they even do that - it’s not like having colouring pads and crayons somehow takes something away from older people. Do older people want something to play with at the table?

Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with ‘family friendly’ establishments and everything to do with not liking how some parents are raising their children.

Hmm.

Well not all children are noisy or allowed to run around in church and restaurants. Not all elderly people hate children’s noise in restaurants and churches.

Going to a restaurant that isn’t family friendly does not have to mean somewhere more expensive. It just means somewhere that doesn’t have room for prams or high chairs or that serves food generally not given to small kids. It’s not usually that hard.

Churches usually send children out for Sunday School 20 minutes into the service so even if there is some noise it’s of short duration. Evening services don’t usually have many children at them.

Both churches and libraries will have to close the next generation doesn’t use them. You might not like it but there it is.

Our local church manages to serve the needs of both ends of the age spectrum without too much trouble. Perhaps you just need to find another church.

If it's a business then the decision to advertise as 'family friendly' is a commercial one, pure and simple, so there won't be a change there any time soon.

I have family in other countries where the children I have seen behave themselves quite well in public

Op, I know what you mean. I have dc aged between 7-12 and make sure when we are out they behave. I would hate to think my parents/grandmother have to suffer noisy, badly behaved children with rude parents who think the world should revolve around their child when they are in church/coffee shops/restaurants. The large majority of people I socialise with expect good behaviour from their children (and that includes those with dc who have extra needs), I distance myself from those who can’t control their children and choose to only socialise with the parents as opposed to the whole family.

@user148534261 your use of the phrases "noise and racket" and "running around and screaming" and also not forgetting "experience being ruined and drowned out by young children" heavily suggests that you think young children are screaming brats!

Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with ‘family friendly’ establishments and everything to do with not liking how some parents are raising their children.

This, in spades.

I have noticed this about museums.

So many are now geared up for kids with really dumbed down explanations of stuff and hands on things.

It's very rare, I find, to have some decent displays written for adults in which you can actually learn something.

No, what I'm saying is that saying some thing is 'family friendly' doesn't mean that parents don't have to exercise some level of consideration or compromise. For instance, in a library they should ensure that their kids aren't tearing up and down the place screaming. In a restaurant they should know when their children's noise is getting to the stage where it's disturbing others and so on.

Family friendly means that families are welcome, and that there are facilities for children etc. But it shouldn't mean that children take priority over everyone else.

No, I think everyone needs a bit more tolerance.

No mamia60 it doesn't.

"I have noticed this about museums.

So many are now geared up for kids with really dumbed down explanations of stuff and hands on things.

It's very rare, I find, to have some decent displays written for adults in which you can actually learn something."

What tosh.

You mention churches in your OP. Our local church has a family service once a month (as you say, it's important that young people go to church otherwise there'll be no one left when the current older generation have died) and still some of the older people moan about the noise etc. Even though there are three adult services a month FFS!

Family friendly frequently doesn't work for us either because our at times noisy older disabled child doesn't cope well with little child noise.
To me family friendly means having facilities for young children but obviously that doesn't mean that environment will work for everyone.

It's very rare, I find, to have some decent displays written for adults in which you can actually learn something.

Thatmust you are going to the wrong museums then.

The none nice version?! Churches, libraries, pubs etc. can’t rely on the old folk to sustain their businesses. They typically go out less than families with young children, they might have more money but they are less willing to spend it (that one only really applies to the pub), and it won’t be that long until they’re either requiring care that stops them from getting out much at all or deceased. So places have to aim themselves at a younger target market if they want any long term chance of survival. There’s of course a middle ground between poorly behaved children running riot and a church congregation about to shuffle off their mortal coil but I suppose it’s probably difficult for places to get the balance right without upsetting someone. And from a business perspective some exec has probably decided it’s preferable to upset the old folk and pander to the young families.

I use all the types of places you mention and don't recognise what you say.

I think it's naive to assume all 'older people' dislike, and have nothing to do with, children.

At my church it is often grandparents who bring grandchildren to the service, not just parents. At my local library, likewise.

I think you are really not talking about 'older people' but about people who don't currently have responsibility for young children and/or people who dislike noise. Those people matter, but it's a bit ageist to presume they're all elderly.

Because it's code for 'good for kids'. If for whatever reason you don't want to be around kids, you can take it as code for 'not for you'.

That's what I did before I had kids.

Incidentally, and along those lines, my experience is that it's often younger adults who object to small children. I have had cross looks from students in the local coffee shop because I've sat down with a (sleeping) baby; I've been ticked off by a particularly entitled young man in the library who told me he was trying to work and I 'wasn't allowed' to bring my baby in (again, she wasn't making a noise, and I know perfectly well I am allowed).

As an aside, @thatmustbenigelwiththebrie what museums are you going to where you can’t find any adult exhibits and it’s all hands on?! Has the national gallery sold off Rembrandt’s self portrait to pay for the fanciest messy play centre the world has ever seen?