To wonder why 'family friendly' doesn't seem to include older people

[user1485342611]

Just thinking about a couple of threads recently that really seem to reflect the way society is going in relation to older people. Libraries need more 'families' using them so older people will just have to put up with noise and racket. A restaurant is 'family friendly' so if you don't want to have kids running around and screaming while you're eating 'go somewhere more expensive'. Churches want to be more welcoming towards children so that means that everyone else has to put up with their experience being ruined and drowned out by young children.

There seems to be this attitude in some quarters that anyone who objects or makes any kind of request for a bit of consideration is some kind of tweed wearing 1930s school marm, glaring through her pince nez before going home to her cat.

AIBU to think that it's possible to welcome young people into places while also giving older people equal right to enjoyment of a facility?

Older people can't win it seems. If they complain about uncontrolled behaviour they're an old fart, but if one is friendly or interested in the children in a public they're 'obviously a pervert'

TBH I find the attitude to children in the UK utterly bizarre - the way in which they're seen as separate, an inconvenience and annoyance. Where does it come from?

I'm from Ireland where the attitude is totally different. Of course there are some places where children aren't welcome at all but everywhere else they're just treated as a normal part of everyday life. I had thought I was imagining how stark the difference was until I went back to Ireland with my children and realised how much less 'watched' I felt there and how much more helpful and accepting people were around children - for example if I ever needed help, someone just stepped up and helped me rather than staring at me or tutting or just being generally judgemental. Adults were just generally nicer to my children, and either talked to them or just made pleasant comments about them, which makes a hard day with smallies a lot easier.

It's a real shame I think that people are so negative about children in the UK - it makes it very hard for parents who are trying to just get on with their lives.

When my baby was first born, I often shut myself in the house all day, to the terrible detriment of my already debilitating PND, because I was so worried he would CRY IN PUBLIC. A baby crying in public!

At baby groups, I found that lots of other new mums were also isolating themselves in this way, for the same reason. Terrified that they would be judged because their babies cried!

For every baby or toddler crying or tantrumming in public, there must be at least ten mothers hiding away at home for fear of being judged over normal child behaviour.

but if one is friendly or interested in the children in a public they're 'obviously a pervert’

This is not an opinion many hold.

What about older people who want to go to such places with their grandchildren? Your OP reads like you think all older people want things a certain way and all children behave in a certain way, it's full of generalisations.

But to answer your AIBU i think it's perfectly possible for differing generations to be in the same space and for everyone to get enjoyment. My local church is a great example of this and provides a quiet side room for feeding infants or for taking children who are being fussy. They also provide a play area which can be used during and alongside the service. This makes it very inclusive for parents of younger children who are not old enough to attend the Sunday school and from what i have witnessed doesn't deter at all from the service.

'When my baby was first born, I often shut myself in the house all day, to the terrible detriment of my already debilitating PND, because I was so worried he would CRY IN PUBLIC. A baby crying in public!'

I was really surprised when I had my DS and I found that other mothers felt this way - I was so excited to get out and show my DS off, because in Ireland a person with a very small baby can't get down the road without everybody wanting to congratulate them/talk about the baby/have a look/offer silver for the pram. I found it really sad when I went out and no one said a word to me. Nowadays if I see a new baby I make a point to have a look and say something nice to the parents - it's just friendly to welcome a new soul, isn't it?

I care for my elderly mother. No-where is elderly - friendly. Once you are 80 you can forget anyone having any consideration for you at all.

People brandish their liberal credentials except where old people are involved - and then it is sneering, derision, lack of consideration, impatience. It's a shame

I was really surprised when I had my DS and I found that other mothers felt this way - I was so excited to get out and show my DS off, because in Ireland a person with a very small baby can't get down the road without everybody wanting to congratulate them/talk about the baby/have a look/offer silver for the pram.

That is exactly how it should be!

Nonsense. There are plenty of places I don’t feel confident taking my twin toddlers, places I went to before we had kids which I would never take them to. I suppose we should only be allowed to take them to soft play until they’re in double figures 🙄

Once you are 80 you can forget anyone having any consideration for you at all.

Painted I’m sorry you’ve found that. It’s certainly not the case everywhere, it’s definitely not where I live.

I found too that in the baby group that I ran mothers were still worried about babies crying, as you say, which struck me as even stranger - surely a baby group is the one place you shouldn't worry at all about crying - in fact, it's perfectly normal? I spent a lot of time reassuring mums that it was fine for their babies to be fussy, for their toddlers to tantrum, for fights to sometimes break out. So much unnecessary stress about totally normal things!

I’m with Spaghettijumper in that the attitude to both young and old seems so divisive at times. When I stay with family overseas there aren’t separate venues for separate ages. Cafes, bars, restaurants, celebrations etc are for everyone and you see whole families out together or at one table a group of young adults and at another, an older couple of group of people. To me that’s so good to see. Go into my city centre here on an evening and unless you are going to the theatre, the majority of people you see are young. It just seems weird that so many places seem to attract just one age group rather than be a welcoming place for everyone.

AIBU to think that it's possible to welcome young people into places while also giving older people equal right to enjoyment of a facility?

Leaving aside the stupid goady shite OP, I'm sure it's possible but the reality is that younger children and elderly people often have quite different needs and preferences to each other. Neither is better or worse, it's just different. What you like when you're 3 is different to what you like when you're 80. There's nothing particularly sinister about this and nor is it something that needs fixing. It's therefore not especially surprising that venues might have an idea what end of the market they want to aim for and pitch accordingly. I mean, that's just the hospitality industry. In the same way that some places cater more for students, for example.

Places that want to focus more on the elderly can and do offer things like OAP discounts on certain days. That's their right. Not everything has to be for everybody: I don't think soft play needs a pensioner section, for example. Or bingo a crèche.

Pubs- families spend good money that keeps pubs open. It gets adults coming out and getting to know their local pub and neighbours instead of having get togethers at home. An adults only area and a sensible cut off for children to leave though is considerate to all. Some pubs such as Brewers Fayres are desgined around children and so adults shouldnt go there and expect peace.

Churches- as above. Toddler groups etc can attract new people to the church community. They could otherwise be put off by the idea that only old people go there. Church run youth clubs can keep older children out of trouble in the local area.

Libraries- obvious desire to get children interested in reading. Attractive and comfortable childrens' section serves this purpose. Perhaps harder to do in small libraries.

The only bugbear i can honestly say i have is pools in gyms such as Bannatynes. I specifically joined a gym with a pool so that i could swim for exercise. The pool is not large and almost always has children of members playing in it. Anyone wanting to swim lengths has to avoid the splashing and moving around the pool. To make matters worse there is a fantastic council run pool, very affordable with baby pool, all manner of inflatables/floats and child friendly changing etc. They'd have so much more fun there.

Nonsense op it says what it is on the tin.

Our 6 kids are grown up now and we all know exactly where to go to eat and drink and avoid kids

We also know where to take the grandchildren.

Loads of choice for everyone. You get rude badly behaved children teens adults and old folk and loveky ones too.

Family friendly is euphemism for kid friendly. I think it's right that public spaces are not closed off to children but I support the idea of spaces for everyone so kid free zones are as welcome to me as kid friendly zones.
No problem with bars, restaurants and gym sessions etc. being childfree.

YANBU. I think quite a lot of people have quite a bad attitude towards kids. When they see them out and about they are poised, waiting for them to do something "wrong" so they can tut and moan.

People seem a lot more pleased to see children in other European countries. People say that this is because the children are better behaved- but maybe the children are better behaved because they get taken out often and to a variety of places - because their parents don't have to worry they will be frowned and tutted at for daring to take their children out for a meal.

One thing I find absolutely baffling is people who think that all cafes owe them a quiet office space to work in. This is what offices are for.
There's a lovely cafe near me that me and my NCT friends go to. It's a wonderful family place owned by Italians. It has a play area for children- but is very naice and the food is amazing. A few weeks ago a man working on his laptop complained that the toddlers were being too noisy for him to work- the staff member told him that it was a restaurant and the toddlers were all still eating and enjoying their food, whereas he had finished his coffee many hours ago....

crumbliest

That’s ridiculous at my David Lloyd they have adult swim only times In the day throughout the year. Can’t you suggest that?

I don’t agree I’m afraid OP, whenever I have taken my 3 young children to a venue like a café for example, where there are elderly people and also other families, I’ve found that on the whole I’ve been met with smiles, nice comments and even a gentle reprimand from one older gentleman, who told me I was being “too hard” on DS (he’s 3) and it didn’t matter that he was playing enthusiastically and loudly with his toy cars. There’s obviously a middle ground of acceptable behaviour where everyone can just co-exist happily.

I don't think I recognise this - it's often younger adults without kids who I see getting irate at often completely inoffensive children in public places.

Now my elderly grandma is more frail we've actually found that "family friendly" places are much better for her.

For example she uses a wheelchair for longer distances but can zimmer around a short distance. We've started going to a "family friendly" restaurant that has lots of space in the lobby area, we can park her wheelchair next to the prams and then there's lots of space between tables for her to manoeuvre her zimmer. She's a bit shaky with her hands and there is no issue with bringing her "child sized" smaller cutlery which she finds helpful. We've never had a problem with unsupervised children zooming around knocking he off balance and actually she really enjoys seeing the kids playing in the big soft play section in the middle of the restaurant.

I think it's all relative - some people are just curmudgeonly about children and some aren't, regardless of age.

Oh yes typecast, there was a thread a while ago from someone who was fucked off that the café she and others were used to utilising as a free workspace was doing a toddlers singalong morning! The level of entitlement was astounding.

typecast

I think the difference in Europe is the weather. Children running around outside is far less annoying then running around inside.

Your point about the bloke is classic. At my gym there’s s children’s play area and a completely separate adult room, it’s loveky. This bloke sits in the children’s area and fires up his lap top giving all the kids evils.

He too complained about the noise. Was told to move. I mean why?? Whet assholes

@Mydoghatesthebath they have some adult only times but theyre few and far between and typically when you wouldn't expect children anyway e.g early morning. To be perfectly honest, considering it's a gym i'd rather it was adults only by default and then have some Children Welcome sessions that people wishing to exercise could avoid.

Even well behaved children make noise, they ask questions thousands a day, they need different facilities sometimes.
So lots of places now cater to that as well as everyone else. Mostly places that say family friendly mean they have child friendly areas would you like them to have OAP friendly spaces.
Libraries are used by many different groups gone are the days of study silent libraries nowadays they can be the hub of the community which is a great think likewise with churches or do you propose we keep children out of these places and leave them for older people thus meaning the younger generation miss out on them.

I'm sorry but i agree, i went to a nice restaurant that i paid £70 for me and my partner to have a nice dinner in, Que screaming children running around our table and 1 even went under it! no sign of the parents , my drink ended up being knocked over.

i spent £70 to sit, eat, worry about table being knocked and not being able to hear my partner over the sound. I just wanted to go home.

Now i don't mind children at a restaurant but at least parent them , make sure they stay AT your own table and not interfere with other peoples meals and at least TRY to decrease the screeching for no reason ( i'm not even talking about upset kids) i mean kids that feel they have to scream just to talk to someone.