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AIBU?

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Original poster

Repeal the 8th

891 replies

SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace · 10/04/2018 20:30

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

OP posts:
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Trinity66 · 11/04/2018 17:20

LaurieMarlow

You seem very eager that your backward idea of Ireland is right, you would think, being Irish yourself you'd be happy to hear that it's not as bad as you thought!

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 11/04/2018 17:22

Wasn't there a 70% jump in the last census of people who identified with no religion?

squoosh · 11/04/2018 17:22

SnipSnipMrBurgess who has threatened you with arrest? Seems highly unlikely to me, especially if posters aren't even allowed in the village itself. I'd remove it.

LaurieMarlow · 11/04/2018 17:32

I'm interested in understanding what's actually happening in the country.

I saw some nat rep data in work in the last few weeks that had those figures slightly higher. That was a private piece of work, not in the public domain.

I don't like the picture they paint, but I don't think denial is the answer. ESS is pretty solid data.

Andrewofgg · 11/04/2018 17:36

It also REALLY fucks me off that men have a vote about what women do with their own bodies.

It would fuck me off too, but why should Woman A have a vote on what Woman B does with her own body?

It's a democratic decision with only one qualified voter.

deadringer · 11/04/2018 18:01

Downwiththatsortofthing I agree with you 100%. I am always amazed when I read on here about how religious Ireland is. Granted I live in Dublin but I literally don't know anyone who goes to mass apart from funerals/weddings/christenings. A few aul ones is right. As a pp said culturally people might describe themselves as Catholic, but they just pay lip service to the Church in order to have the pomp and ceremony for special occasions, but no one gives a shit otherwise. My DD is making her communion soon, she is fostered by us and her birth parents want her to make it. (Our birth DC didn't) Neither of them have stepped inside a church since they were kids, but they want the big day out. When all the parents brought the Communion class to the church for their first confession, for at least 95% of them it was their first time in a church. (Aside from christenings etc).
A pp said that the pro choice side describing pregnancy as a cluster of cells is not helpful and I totally agree. As soon as they get pregnant most women feel that they are carrying a baby. When someone congratulates them they don't say thanks but it's just a cluster of cells you know. It can't be a baby when it's wanted and a cluster of cells when it's not. Even though I was not brought up in a religious family and have been an atheist since I was a child I still feel that a baby is a baby, and I think most Irish people feel that, so I think the pro choice side pushing that is ill advised. I am still firmly pro choice though.
I think the vote will be tight but I am hoping it will squeeze through.

Slievenamon · 11/04/2018 18:06

It can't be a baby when it's wanted and a cluster of cells when it's not

Why not? It IS just a cluster of cells early on , and its not a baby for a long time. Why can't it be different depending on whether its wanted or not? Many women will tell you that they see their wanted pregnancy totally different to their unwanted one.

Slievenamon · 11/04/2018 18:06

It can't be a baby when it's wanted and a cluster of cells when it's not

Why not? It IS just a cluster of cells early on , and its not a baby for a long time. Why can't it be different depending on whether its wanted or not? Many women will tell you that they see their wanted pregnancy totally different to their unwanted one.

Labyrinthian · 11/04/2018 18:08

It's beyond frustrating. 6th years (18 year olds in leaving cert) I know have had pro life come into school assembly to talk about their first voting experience and how to vote. A school.in Dublin had fliers sent home with confirmation class. I take care of an elderly relative who I take to mass, and since before Christmas I have heard prayers and speeches from the pulpit on every occasion I am in church. It's beyond frustrating. We are in the rural west and there are no visible signs anyone wants to repeal, only the pro life tripe everywhere. Posters up, banners up etc. Even my next door neighbour, who has 2 doctors in the family has 'love both' signs in the window. Among my peers I know lots who will vote to repeal but with what I see locally I struggle to see it passing in rural Ireland.

UnaMagdalena · 11/04/2018 18:08

I sit next to a woman at work (27 years of age) and she and her mother who is my age (47) are both voting no. ffs.

It's a democratic decision with only one qualified voter.

Perfect way to put it.

Labyrinthian · 11/04/2018 18:19

One of the radio shows (think Matt Cooper) did a myth busting on this. It looked at the proved fraud in the campaign to date (the male nurse quoting on abortions he had worked on posters that they pulled because it was a paid actor, and this stat - apparently the stat does not include reported miscarriages or losses - so the stats have been hugely inflated.

Doryismyname · 11/04/2018 18:21

Is there any discussion in the debate and media in Ireland about Tuam and the other atrocities committed against women and children at the hands of the Catholic Church? Where was the outcry and the protection of the most vulnerable in our society then? Perhaps the craw thumpers need reminding that the Catholic Chuch literally has blood on its hands and has no right to take the moral high ground on this.

pandarific · 11/04/2018 18:21

@Tringley just donated.

As Kanto is the agency that worked on the Brexit campaign and is (I think?) still working for the Pro Life camp, will you guys be hiring a shit-hot rival agency with the proceeds to scupper them? please do

The very very best of luckFlowersFlowers; I would love to be able to vote but have been out of Ireland too long. I posted on Tumblr with a link to In her Shoes facebook group and the donating link which went quite well - I'll update with the new campaign when I get home tonight.

Original poster
SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace · 11/04/2018 18:38

@Labyrinthian both counties I have lived in are also in the west and I would also say rural. I think it's interesting that if I were to look at my Facebook friends that are so passionately pro choice and for the repeal they all come from one county (Mayo where I am currently visiting) whilst the others (from Galway) have been very very quiet. All roughly the same age though and people I grew up with/went to school with. I would say though that where I lived in Galway was very much the sticks and more religious so maybe that's why.

OP posts:
StripySocksAndDocs · 11/04/2018 20:03

It is a cluster of cells earlier on. A cluster of cells that has a potential to become a baby. How much importance that potential.has depends on how much a baby is wanted.

Early miscarriages I've had are a loss of a future baby. That has made me sad, but I didn't feel I lost an actual baby. Later miscarriages (after a scan) I have felt that.

I've not had (thankfully) a stillborn baby. So I can't compare how different that stage made me feel.

Elendon · 11/04/2018 20:10

Hoping Ireland will repeal the 8th.

Horrible moment for you OP, but that's what it is like in Ireland. There are evangelical people out there who intimidate and push regardless of what you say to them.

Good luck Flowers

Elendon · 11/04/2018 20:14

I lived in Galway for almost a decade and was involved in the first referendum in 1983. I bought a property there too and got married. All by the age of 24!

I knew my mind then, I knew about civil liberties, as it was once called.

peanut2017 · 11/04/2018 21:18

Have sent the link to some what's groups I am on for Together for Yes and the Home to Vote campaign.

Have donated and my sisters in the UK both have as they have not lived in Ireland for years.

Does anyone know what agencies are been looked at for this campaign? I deal with some through work so might know a few things / people?

HughLauriesStubble · 11/04/2018 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

theymademejoin · 11/04/2018 22:01

My elderly mother, who is very anti-abortion except in very limited cases, is voting repeal as she reckons if you don't want an abortion, then don't get one. So basically, she is pro-choice but anti-abortion as she trusts women to make the right decision.

OVienna · 11/04/2018 22:20

@theymademejoin your mother is quite right.

OVienna · 11/04/2018 22:22

Could that be the slogan for the pro choice movement:

If you don't want one, don't get one.

Slievenamon · 11/04/2018 22:29

We've been saying it for 45 years!

ragdoll700 · 11/04/2018 22:53

Im pro choice but anti abortion I will vote yes

Tringley · 11/04/2018 23:08

Many of the pro-life campaigners* are lowlife scum. Last week they put their leaflets into toy catalogues that were distributed door to door in Dublin. And not any ordinary leaflets but vile claims that repealing would be 'an abusive man's dream scenario.' And some almost certainly bullshit personal stories from alleged women who's partners forced them to abort against their will. Deliberately targeted at children!?!

www.buzz.ie/latest/toymaster-apologise-pro-life-material-catalogues-279692

*Campaigners not ordinary No voters. I don't agree with them but not everyone who votes pro-life is scum.