Repeal the 8th

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

Did anyone hear Leo Varadkar on Matt Cooper yesterday? Thought he came across very well on the issue.
www.todayfm.com/podcasts/87079/Leo-Varadkar:-Abortion-In-Ireland-Is-Already-A-Reality

Then had a panel with Cora Sherlock from the Iona Institute who wouldn't answer a direct question when asked what she said about a 12 year old child forced to have a baby. They quoted her back that she stated that the 12 year old should have the baby.

I do hope we get the right decision on Friday

Is anyone watching the debate? I am screaming at the TV. Woman made a decision but wants to stop any other women having a choice to make any decision themselves. Screaming here

I know OP, my boss is voting No. She is 30. Lives at home.

Geez. A lot of people think this is an age divide. Ha! I'm the oldest one in my office and I'm the most vociferously pro-choice. I have children. I am single. I have faced obstacles and been financially disadvantaged by parenthood and discriminated against by potential employers and considered not worth dating because I have children. I'm the one with children I love and yet these young girls living at home with their parents who've never had a bill they cannot pay, they have their degrees behind them and they haven't a clue.

I spoke to my kids about this tonight. Most of their friends are voting yes (dd has some friends travelling home to vote), but they know quite a few young people who have said they feel it's morally wrong and are voting no.

I think many of us in Ireland still have the view that it's wrong to "kill" a baby, even if that baby hasn't been born yet. Most of the people i know are voting yes despite that niggling feeling of it being wrong - voting for the lesser of two evils I suppose.

I personally think that having to prove you were raped, or prove you are suicidal is appalling - as well as being impossible. I admire Varadkar for going for the whole shebang - on demand to 12 weeks - which will help the majority of women. However it was and is a risky stance, and I still wouldn't bet anything on it being passed on Friday.

The no side is putting a lot of money into this - watch for the fleets of buses and taxis from old people's homes to polling stations on Saturday; the entire over 70 population will be voting.

I've been encouraged by the number of people over 70 voting yes. I had 4 houses the other night where I thought the answer would be no when they opened the door but they were very committed yes voters.

@RonWeasleys2ndCousin

I was wondering if NI citizens had a vote in the referendum, or could have? If they have an Irish passport, which nearly the whole population of NI would be entitled to?

Reason I ask is that i was in Dublin city centre yesterday & there were leafletters every few metres on O'Connell, Henry & D'Olier Sts yesterday. I could not get over the amount of anti-repealers with NI accents

Irish citizens resident in NI do not have a vote.

NotLinkedIn, you've hit on something I'd noticed about the 20-30 age No voters: lots with comfortable jobs, good education and no children. Haven't ever been challenged by life in any way yet so see things in a very limited and simplistic light. Very little understanding of the grey areas of humanity. Will get the shock of their lives when the world eventually bites them on the ass in whatever form it does.

And don't get me started on the older men who have never been within an inch of a dirty nappy or cared for another human in their last messy moments.

I'm maybe being unfair here but it is so frustrating to think that our lives and futures are resting on people who do not understand the terms.

Great interview with Leo Varadkar. It’s going to be close but we only need to win by one vote to get rid of this nonsense and start allowing us to make our choice to be looked after at home - whatever the decision of the mother.

The No lot are nowhere to be seen when an unwanted baby is born, the Catholic Church have showed us what they do with single mothers and babies. Fuck that shit, leave us women to decide for ourselves.

Desperate for a Yes.

We Northerners can't, unfortunately. Someone brought a court case about it out it was dismissed.

Yes you are being unfair halfstar stereotyping and dismissing significant swathes of society. You have no idea what people have been through in their lives, or what demons they've had to fight. Just because someone is well educated and living at home, it doesn't mean they haven't had challenges in life, maybe challenged you have never experienced.

A relative of mine is probably one of those anti-repealers you met, the Church is organizing buses for them to travel down to protest.

The way I look at, abortions are happening anyway whether we all want to acknowledge it or not.

One thing I'm learning from this referendum is you can't stereotype at all, I've been surprised many times by people I would've expected to be no and are yes and vice versa.

One thing I've learned over the years is women coming together on forums like this and talking is one of the most powerful things we can do. I've been more educated on many matters regarding women and other subjects than I ever could have watching the news or reading a book.

Truthfully without Irish parenting forums I'm not certain that today I'd be a yes vote.

I am probably guilty of stereotyping user but I'm certainly not dismissing them. Quite the opposite: I see those No voters I describe as wielding a lot of influence.

As to people having their own difficulties that I've never had - yes that may well be true. I like to think that I'd listen to and show them empathy were they to discuss them openly though, because I'd consider them to be an expert on their own experience.

My friend and I were having a conversation about this earlier. We are both 'yes' but he expressed the opinion that he is doubtful as to whether the referendum will pass. He thinks that this has become purely about abortion and how/when/where rather than a woman's rights to make choices about her body- he fears that the issue of choice has been overshadowed by the technicalities of what may or may not be in the legislation.

I have to say that I agree with him.

Another issue that hasnt been given any thought (that I have seen, anyway) is that if and when this legislation is passed (thats going to be one hell of a fight) it still has to be interpreted by the courts. Thats going to be a minefield as well.

I'm sick of the lies being spread by the 'no' side though. It's actually sickening. Its hardly as though if the referendum passes that we are all going to wake up to our next Tesco clubcard statement and there will be double points for your next abortion.

There is so much propoganda surrounding this issue, so many lies and so little focus on what will actually be the case.

I love that we as a nation are talking about this issue, but I cant wait until I vote and for the ballot boxes to close on Friday.

All legislation goes through the same process. If there's any legislation that is going to get extra attention in terms of being unambiguous this is going to be it. The interpretation will not (imho) be an issue. But sure, the antis will challenge it. I love saying that because I'm taking it as a given that we'll get a majority Yes vote on Friday. And there will be legislation.

This is interesting and I admit I didn’t know that abortions were taking place in the UK and elsewhere for Irish women. To travel must just add to the stress.
Does anyone know what happens in other EU countries such as Poland, where I hear there are fairly strict laws around terminations.

3timeslucky I'm thinking of doctors who will still not want to commit/be afraid of committing to such a contentious issue. I agree with you that the wording of this will have to be as unambiguous as possible, but I cant foresee there being no challenges once the legislation is passed (Im being optimistic too ).

Im just hoping for a yes on Friday, and given the criticisms of Irish attitude regarding the treatment of women seeking abortion from the ECHR and the UN... if it is a no, I cant see that going down too well.

Biologifemini, Polish women who don't meet the Polish criteria travel to Germany or Russia so they do exactly what Irish women do. I imagine Maltese women do the same.

It's going to be very close.

Thanks DrMantisToboggan

@RonWeasleys2ndCousin - thanks for the info. I was going to ask which church but ime they are all much the same up there... Also: you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family :D I am also sadly related to some no voters...

@Biologifemini - women are leaving the country for terminations and also illegally importing abortion pills into the country from various charity websites

Did anyone watch Pat Kenny debate last night? Mullins was terrible - he was very dismissive of mental health. And very patronising to the brave lady who told her personal story - 'you'll receive love no matter what you've done'... or something like that.

Regina just kept repeating the same number - 3,650 - and Pat got really frustrated with all of them. He also seemed biased against the No side - he didn't seem like an impartial moderator.

I'll be voting Yes but am not confident this will pass. I know a lot of people who are undecided and saying they are not going to vote at all as they say they can see both sides.

Such an interesting and emotive thread. In RL both sides feel equally passionately that their opinions and beliefs are right.
Whatever the outcome, the result will certainly be utterly divisive

....and as pp have said, so many people are undecided

I did not sign up for a democracy which passes decision making on to an oireachtas committee to decide the ins and outs on my behalf. When did this happen /accepable in this country. . The govt is bringing in unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks and after that on grounds including mental health. Repealing the 8th is the govt in my view is bringing in abortion by stealth rather than being open about it
I wish we were voting on the intricacies as well as on the 12 week issue so the 'hard cases ' could be addressed but o no its all or nothing. Too liberal for me so im an emphatic no.
I also find the anger of the yes side and their behaviour just as bad as the religious nutters on the no side.
Who is funding the yes campaign ? Some private hospitals i bet

Who is funding yes campaign?
Well I donated €20! Most of it from similar private donations.