Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Repeal the 8th

891 replies

SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace · 10/04/2018 20:30

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
DougFargo · 03/05/2018 16:32

I also worry that men (I have sons) could just be told 'I don't want this baby' and that would be the end of it

Why would you worry about that? Do you think your sons should be able to force women to have babies for them that they don't want?

TheEagle · 03/05/2018 16:44

stay, I hope that you’re not lumping the laws in the Republic in with the recent rape trial in Northern Ireland, which is an entirely different jurisdiction.

The phrase “abortion on demand” is an awful one that the No side have pounced upon.

Read Dr. Peter Boylan’s words on the matter, read the literature from the Referendum Commission, read the stories of the living, breathing women and mothers who have suffered because of the 8th Amendment.

Please vote Yes on May 25.

TheEagle · 03/05/2018 16:45

I have 3 sons and I would never wish them to force a woman into continuing with a pregnancy that she didn’t want.

StripySocksAndDocs · 03/05/2018 17:18

Stood at a v busy luas stop watching a man hand out flyers with a foetus on them.

Pretty much being bypassed by all. It's very heartwarming.

StripySocksAndDocs · 03/05/2018 17:19

(I can't see the writing btw. So I've presumed he's a no campaigner.)

NeedAGoodBook · 03/05/2018 17:28

Look no campaigners hiding their faces. I took a photo but i was on a bus so hardly a threat.

Repeal the 8th
StripySocksAndDocs · 03/05/2018 17:36

The man I saw was in his 60s. Maybe 70s. Had a massive hat on so wasn't able to see him (as I was above him).

StripySocksAndDocs · 03/05/2018 17:37

See him as in his face. Hat wasn't that big that it obsured him totally!

stayathomer · 03/05/2018 17:57

TheEagke I've been reading a lot on it, that's why I'm so torn. And if my sons did want to raise a child and their partner didn't want to keep it then that would be the most horrific stalemate, wouldn't it? See that's the thing I can't get past, I don't want to force anyone into something, but at the same time I keep thinking 'but the baby.' I honestly know. I've talked it through with so many people and I do know, but then on the other side of it I don't. Sorry everyone, I'm just lost. I keep crying about it, crying when I read the women's stories but then crying about the babies too. Sorry

Astella22 · 03/05/2018 18:02

@TheVeryThing as a woman in Ireland I’d like to thank you for canvassing and am so heartened to hear you say the majority on the door are voting yes.
Can I also say I also really can’t understand the brigade who say it’s fine for rape but not in other cases - so they are say abortion is grand but only if ur not a ‘slut’ Hmm totally misogynistic IMO.

DougFargo · 03/05/2018 18:08

See that's the thing I can't get past, I don't want to force anyone into something, but at the same time I keep thinking 'but the baby

But voting NO does force women to have babies they don't want. Why do potential babies matter more than actual women?

TheEagle · 03/05/2018 18:20

So you’re comfortable with a 16 year old (or younger) having to travel to another country to access an abortion? Or to take abortion pills without he appropriate medical supervision?

All that the 8th does in those cases is drive abortion underground or to another jurisdiction.

If someone doesn’t want to have a baby then they will do whatever they can to ensure they don’t.

The situations you describe happen whether the 8th is in place or not Confused

Surely you believe all women have the right to safe, appropriate and affordable healthcare in their own country?

TheEagle · 03/05/2018 18:21

And presumably you’re crying about all the “babies” in all the countries of the world where abortion is legalised?

LaurieMarlow · 03/05/2018 18:31

i don't want to force anyone into something, but at the same time I keep thinking 'but the baby.

No matter what the law says, women desperate not to have a baby will not have that baby.

They'll go underground or they'll go abroad - both of these could have devastating consequences to their mental and physical health.

This is a very pragmatic way of looking at it, but in some ways the vote isn't much less about abortion and much more about how we think about women's safety and health.

inniu · 03/05/2018 19:22

A man cannot legally stop a woman having an abortion as the law stands. Women can legally travel to access abortion or illegally get abortion bills.

Only women who are too ill, too poor, too young or undocumented are stopped from having abortions. Even some of them will try and induce an abortion by getting prescription for other medications with known side effects.

But it really impacts other areas of women's health care.

peanut2017 · 03/05/2018 20:31

@stayathomer did you read my story? Posted yesterday. Please read what I went through?

I know more than anyone how difficult our decision was and I was made to feel like a criminal. Terrified if anyone found out, saw us at the airport.

All I wanted was compassion and care by professionals and to be able to come home to my own bed and cry my eyes out.

I am a human being and I didn't want to be in this situation. Please vote repeal.

TheEagle · 03/05/2018 20:34

Peanut Flowers

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 03/05/2018 20:55

peanut your story is awful and I say the same for my DSis.

I had a Love Both canvasser arrive at my door, I have canvassed so I am very respectful of others doing it so I would not dream of saying anything unpleasant, but I thought how can you knock on people’s doors when you have no idea of the journeys other people have gone through to arrive at their view on abortion. If another one comes by I will listen respectfully but only if they agree in advance to listen to my sisters story too. These are real women with real life experiences not a grouping of cells that 6 weeks or so ago was an ovum and sperm.

peanut2017 · 03/05/2018 21:23

Thanks. Luckily I've had no one to the door yet. However I've family that attend rallies and are extremely religious which makes my experience all the more difficult. I have had to keep it a secret.

TheVeryThing · 03/05/2018 21:54

peanut I'm so sorry for what you went through, and for every woman affected by the eighth amendment.
There are many thousands of us who support you and feel anger for your suffering. I really hope we are in the majority come polling day.
I haven't had any No campaigners to the door since the referendum was called, but I'm not really interested in debating with them, on my doorstep or online. I prefer to save my energy for the undecided voters, or those who might be a 'soft' no.

LuluMarie · 04/05/2018 02:27

Good (in difficult circumstances) to read more of exchange of experiences and views rather than personal attacks.

There is a position outside of a firm commitment to yes or no based on science beliefs, a chosen set of morals beliefs.

I am extremely uncomfortable with abortion for non medical (and very young girls, abuse situations). I do feel that a fœtus is a child. The important word here is that I “feel”. I don’t know more than anyone else knows.

However I do not believe I, or any other uninvolved party, has any right to tell a person or family what to do. It is not my choice. It is also not my place or anyone else’s place to judge a very personal and almost always very difficult decision.

Unless we have walked in a person’s shoes, we have no idea of the emotion, the pain, the challenges, the experiences. This goes for many difficult life situations. The best we can therefore do is to listen, without judgement, to those who have been in a situation. We should be creating a safe space for stories to be shared. This is how we learn and can act with empathy and understanding.

I can’t imagine the pain of this decision. The fact that I would not do it unless medically necessary for my existing family is neither here not there. It is not my experience that matters. The fact that women speak of being made to feel much worse or traumatised is beyond unfair. The situation is already tragic, placing more pain on a person is not the right of any other person, particularly not strangers or those without the experience.

If we all listened, we would get a lot further. I’m so sad to hear stories (bravely shared) of incredibly difficult experiences. Yes I feel that there is life (in the cases of good health), but it is not my life/bunch of cells and therefore it is not me decision to make. It is also not my decision to say a person cannot do something that they are uniquely placed to decide upon.

I particularly find stories of medical necessity, a devestating tragedy, turning into a huge further trauma, incredibly sad. I can’t imagine how this feels. All I can do is listen.

So here I am, I happen to feel (important word) that a healthy fœtus in a healthy (physically and emotionally ie no abuse) is a life. I have no religious basis for my feelings, this is my experience with children who may not have been born shaping me. Again, my (not the only) experience.

I am not screaming about body autonomy (in healthy cases) or choice, I think this diminishes the complexity... there is a point where we in certain cases have to take responsibility for previous choices. As we man if we insist on being treated as strong adults, we also have to act like them. However if taking responsibility translates as considered all the unique parts of a situation and coming to a difficult decision, so be it. Sometimes, often, the decision is the strong woman one to make.

To be honest it seems to me that regardless of decision, a great deal of strength and resilience is needed. We should respect this, rather than presume to know the details of the life of another.

So here I am, not shouting, not a personal fan of this particular reality of the world, but sure that it is not my place to make a judgement for anyone else. That includes which way to vote.

So I will be voting to give the option without trauma to a person facing the decision, because despite my discomfort with the reality of this being part of life, it is only my decision if it is me and as we all know, life is complex and difficult. Empathy is needed, not agression. I do not wish to be part of causing any distress or trauma to someone in an already incredibly difficult position and anyone who has found themselves personally in a very difficult situation and done their very best to make a very difficult decision has my thoughts.

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil · 04/05/2018 02:43

Should the Constitution be amended and legislation put in place as currently considered to be proposed , where the recommendations of the Oireachtas Commission Report are the basis, then the life of the mother and her unenumerated rights to her bodily integrity (Ryan) will supersede that of the unborn child. That is not to say that the rights of the unborn child will be extinguished, but that precedence will be given to the established life (mother) and given precedence in forthcoming legislation for the next amendment of the Constitution.

I will be voting for pro-choice.

Choice.

I'm not telling anyone to have an abortion, Im not telling anyone not to. I simply believe in a woman's right to choose.

I may be wrong, but I do not believe that even if, or hopefully when, this referendum is passed that the legislation will pass smoothly through the Oireachtas. It is such a divisive subject that I can only imagine the objections. Look at this thread- whilst the most well mannered debate I've seen regarding the eighth in a long time (!!) it is still divided.

OkPedro · 04/05/2018 02:45

Isn't it awful that no one seems to be crying about the women who are faced with an unplanned crisis pregnancy or a baby that has a FFA

I can't understand the lack of compassion, understanding and empathy for women

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 04/05/2018 08:23

Lulu that is a great post. I know plenty of people who hold your view point that life begins at conception. Many of course believe therefore that life should be weighed equally with the life of the mother. I fundamentally disagree with the equivalence at such an early stage of foetal development but I absolutely respect this view.

littlewoollypervert · 04/05/2018 10:19

Walk to work this morning - 5 NO posters, 24 YES posters (Westland Row to Dawson St)