Repeal the 8th

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

Yes posters. Where are they getting the money?

American fundamentalists. They get an absolute tonne of money every year from these very wealthy fundie groups. 10s or millions every year, maybe more. Fundie America sees us as their great white hope, the frontline in the war on women abortion.

And don't think I was using great white hope colloquially. The fact that we are a modern western democracy with an overwhelmingly white population is very important in the level of support they level at us. Sure Irish white isn't quite real white to these people but we are the closest thing to them so we'll do as a shining example of what they want to achieve at home.

If we vote to retain, we will give those fundies strength to keep up their own campaigns in the US. Look at how the liberal modern people of Ireland voted to protect their unborn babies. These people are so modern that the foolishly voted for gay marriage but they still recognise the right to life of the unborn. We will give them such a moral high ground to preach from. If we vote to repeal we will cease to become important to them. They will ignore us and funding to organisations like the Iona Institute will all but dry up as they move onto their new frontline, probably Poland.

That's one of the most infuriating things about this whole situation. We have already had to endure decades of the Catholic church using us as this beacon of Catholic values in Europe. (Because it's no coincidence at all that Francis chose 2018 to visit Ireland. He was just outmanoeuvred when the referendum was called earlier than expected, so it will be done and dusted before any "Pope Fever" can be built up.) But we're also just a political football for US fundies now too. It's disgusting, these are our real lives and we are just publicity stunts to those disgusting people, potentially useful for pushing their own agendas.

(And poor, poor Polish women if we Repeal. They are already the RCC's new European poster child and they'll become the focus of wealthy US fundies too if we are no good to them anymore.)

Someone asked earlier about talking to kids about the No posters. There are good ideas in these for kids of different ages:

parentsforchoice.ie/talk-children-abortion-care-run-referendum/

medium.com/indian-thoughts/explaining-abortion-to-kids-4db6f15f4b76

amp.independent.ie/life/family/the-best-way-to-talk-to-young-children-about-the-abortion-referendum-according-to-an-irish-psychotherapist-36803071.html?__twitter_impression=true

*Saw some Together for Yes posters yesterday but they just say 'vote yes'. I know the space is limited but think there could be something better than this

If I was an undecided that wouldn't persuade me to vote yes*

The ones near me say "Stop Policing my Body" and Stop Shaming Women"

@theymademejoin that's a brilliant article

@trinity66 they are better messages although I still feel that ones that are worded as 'us' instead of women can be taken up the wrong way.

I'd rather see something around if you don't agree with abortion, don't have one but don't take that choice away from someone else - I'm not putting it right. Makes sense in my head though 🤦‍♀️

The ones near me say "Stop Policing my Body" and Stop Shaming Women"

These are the only good ones. They're produced by an organisation called ROSA (who I think were also behind the handmaid's tale protests).

The Labour posters, which are more prolific are much more bland.

While they're spot-on in their messaging they're no use for swaying the on-the-fence voters. Many voters just don't relate to them and certainly don't see them as persuasive. They speak to their own (already pro-repeal) audience. Labour's Compassion in Crisis and Women's Healthcare message may be more bland but they capture what is most likely to sway the undecideds. And the consensus seems to be that those are the voters that will determine the outcome - latest poll would back that up.

I heard a good point today, from a man Yay, there are men who get it, that they wouldn't take the organs from a person who had died without their consent so a corpse literally has more rights over their own body.

While I personally like the ROSA ones I don't think they are particularly useful. No voters either don't see it as policing or shaming or don't care. On the fencers aren't persuaded with that message either.
The LAbour and Together for Yes ones are more useful "Yes for Compassion in a Crisis" " "For Womens Health Vote Yes" etc etc.

I agree that the more "compassion in a crisis" posters are better for undecided voters. I've worked in marketing and political campaigning and the undecided are very very different to committed voters on all sides. While I am of the very pro-choice "hands off my body" view, my arguments would never sway a sitting-on-the-fence person. I am too emotionally involved in this as are some of my family and we feel we cannot directly campaign door to door because we are the stereotype radical feminists. Although I love being a radical feminist it has never convinced an old aged man to change his mind. And I can be very good at other political campaigns but my charm goes out the window on this - I want to shout at people.
I truly loved the Waterford Whispers article, I'd share it with the world but I gave up facebook for lent and haven't gone back (I know - lent!).
BTW just wanted to say to you guys again, I feel I've found home here - so good to find like minded people, without having to face daily internet misogyny for being a feminist

I heard a good point today, from a man Yay, there are men who get it, that they wouldn't take the organs from a person who had died without their consent so a corpse literally has more rights over their own body.

Bloody hell yeah, scary

While I personally like the ROSA ones I don't think they are particularly useful. No voters either don't see it as policing or shaming or don't care. On the fencers aren't persuaded with that message either.
The LAbour and Together for Yes ones are more useful "Yes for Compassion in a Crisis" " "For Womens Health Vote Yes" etc etc.

Yeah you're right actually eventhough I do want to scream the other messages and No voters :p

I feel the exact same about the Rosa posters. They aren't wrong, I agree 100% with their message but I think that they are very off-putting to the undecideds. And at worst, some (men) who probably wouldn't even bother voting might be inspired to go vote no out of spite. I worry about all the incel types who just want to stick two fingers up at the mean feminists and will vote against us because those posters pissed them off. They also give weight to the No campaigners who are trying to present us as selfish girls just worried about our bodies at the expense of the lives of the poor little babies.

I agree with the message, but they just aren't at all politically aware.

Lovely to see the Maser mural take on a new life in a new location (amnesty international if you want to google for an admiring look!)

I also like the one that says "Someone you know needs the right to choose". They also have the fact the more than 170,000 women have travelled for an abortion.

I think it's really important to show that the 8th doesn't prevent abortion, it just makes it more stressful and more dangerous.

First debate on the late late show tonight both sides will be represented

Who's watching? Dr. Peter, speaking so calmly with over 40 years experience-love him. The one in the red dress is manipulating through emotion, my brain is going to explode.

That poor lady speaking about her ordeal having to travel to Liverpool to be induced. She couldn't bury her baby Grace as she couldn't afford to travel back, I was balling! Where was the care and respect for that woman.

I had the no side at my door yesterday, dd (4) lifted the curtain to look out before I could stop her so they rumbled I was in 😂. Two older ladies, one clearly religious, I took the leaflet but said I was a yes voter. One of them said "Won't you think of the babies, I see you have your own beautiful baby, think of her", I wasn't quick enough to say she is exactly the reason I am voting yes. She spouted some shit about god and praying for me, she pissed me off for a good hour after while I mulled over all the things I should have said but wasn't quick enough for, I hate it when that happens

Quite a few more posters up around now, alot of the more plain posters, "Vote Yes for womens health" etc

I'm confused. I understand the need to legislate for difficult cases but why has the 12 week unrestricted abortion to be included? Is it a point of law?

12 weeks will not be in the constitution. It is what the current government would propose as law if the 8th amendment is repealed.

The reason they are suggesting is to allow for termination in cases of rape as it would never be possible to get a guilty verdict in time for a termination.

Thank you for that..