Repeal the 8th

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

If abortion is legalised more than likely women will be paying for it (baring, perhaps medical card holders). Can't see health insurance providers covering it.

I very much doubt women will chose abortion as a means of contraception on a regular basis given the likely financial costs, without even considering the emotional, mental and physical toll many women experience. It's a nonsense argument.

Good point thatescalated
I don't know exactly how Free Safe Legal will actually work

If as you say it's free for medical card holders then everyone else will go on a waiting list now that would be a disaster!

What I'd like to see is a woman going to her gp, taking the abortion pill and returning for a follow up

If abortion up to 12 weeks is legislated for then this would be the best way

Clearly I am going to vote repeal. I'm quietly hopeful that it will be repealed.

However I'm struggling with the 'pro - life' crowd, which oddly appears to include quite a high number of my family members. I've refused to fill in any of the forms for DP to vote. If he wants to vote imo, idiotically, he can do his own paperwork. Family events will definitely be more interesting from now on, as I won't be able to hold my tongue. How many Irish women have died by suicide because she's in a situation she can't cope with, or from incredibly dodgy online medicine? They could have had options, except that they lived in Ireland.

I don't think others will go on a waiting list, I assume it will be like other forms of GP care here. You'll pay your GP fee (€50 on average) plus the cost of the pill which I think is around €80 at cheapest? I understand the costs in somewhere like Marie Stopes in the U.K. for the abortion pill is around €400-€500, and they recommend it only up to 9 weeks and 3 days, but I assume that includes some kind of stay or follow up care or something. I can't see that being something women choose on a regular basis.

The Government has never said it will be free, as far as I know, and I doubt they would as it would be seen by the anti choice crowd as encouraging abortion.

Free Safe Legal is a campaigning slogan, not official policy. I would think, like everything else here, it'll cost those seeking out the service.

I did hear on the Matt cooper show a few weeks ago a guy he has on as a gp contributor. According to him no one at that point had spoken to the gp's about offering this service.

What's going to come into this is the GP personal opinion on abortion and if they agree or don't agree with it. How does it work then? We don't really want clinics as then you will have the horrible protesters outside the premises?

Anyone a GP who knows more about this?

Not a GP but I would imagine crisis pregnancy phone lines and websites will be able to provide lists of GPS who will prescribe abortion pills

@OkPedro sorry if I didnt make myself clear, sometimes I do that :P I just meant that simply because there is a choice to have an abortion women wont necessarily use is as a form of birth control (which I know is one of the pro-life arguments). In reference to the two women I mentioned that I have known IRL who had this, 'bugger it, if I get pregnant Ill just have an abortion' attitude- they were the anomaly, not the norm of women I know, there will always be some people who 'abuse the system' so to speak.

Can't see health insurance providers covering it.

As insurance companies exist to make a profit surely it would be much more cost effective for them than paying out for healthcare for the whole pregnancy and birth?

They don't cover most prescriptions Jellyfrizz so I can't see them covering this. Especially given the likely backlash from the anti-choice crowd. I don't know what happens if a surgical option is necessary, perhaps that will be covered.

That's quite possible whosafraid but I think there's a possibility that specialist clinics might open, like Marie Stopes and you do have the Master of Holles Street, for example, coming out in favour of Repeal.

Anti choice I like that whosafraid is there any way that can be used as a slogan by the pro choice side?

Regardless of the nature of the campaign, the fact that in Ireland people are allowed a vote on such issues should be celebrated

I can't agree. I find it infuriating and sickening that anyone at all should be asked whether I should be granted a fundamental human right to control my own body and life. This isn't something that the country should be voting on, it should just be done.

@ThatEscalatedQuickly I hadnt really thought about it from thta perspective. The abortion pill will after all be a prescription. I know my health insurance doesnt cover prescriptions.

I hope the repeal goes ahead. Sadly, I think that when it does it is not going to be easy, there will be protestations and arguments at every single turn in the road.

@Slievenamon agree 100%. Whilst I love the fact we have a system that allows the people to make decisions on matters of importance, there is something hideous about having to entrust the level of autonomy you have over your body to the whim of a majority electorate.

Ill get off my soapbox now.

€522,000 raised already crowdfund.togetherforyes.ie/

@Slievenamon, I am 100% with you on this - I am one of those people who doesn't believe men should have a vote on this - actually no one should have a vote on this except the woman who is pregnant at that moment in time. (If you know what I meant). I love my DP and my 2 DS but my DD and I (she's a teen) believe it should be up to women. I mean, do men ask my permission to have prostate treatment? I know it will seem trite to many people, but I am a mother and I have been pregnant 5 times so I think I am allowed to say that abortion choice is a treatment for women and for them alone to decide. BTW, I also feel that every woman who wants to continue with a pregnancy should be supported and we need greater care for women, especially those with FFA diagnosis, we have been through this in my family, there was no support, and that was despite the hospital being 100% pro-life. I would never want someone in that situation to feel under pressure to have an abortion. But again, everyone needs to be free to make their own choice.

@celticsketie, no it was the politics one - with the ie at the end of it.

@Annasgirl I feel the same. I responded to a FB post on my newsfeed about a week ago or so. It was a pro-life video with experts all putting in their two cents. Every single expert, bar one was male and all (although without checking their birth certs before I get shot for the assumption) over the age of fifty. They all had their job titles under their name (all doctors) the one woman on the video had her name on it, but no job title. I looked her up and she is a doctor for the HSE.

I commented on this post, and was called a 'sexist' for highlighting the gender disproportion on what is and always will be, an issue for a woman. Its not sexist to point out the simple fact that only one of the experts was female. I dont think that men should be banned from voting in this issue, but I do think that there are an awful lot of men who dont really 'get it'. Just how personal this issue is.

...The last referendum here was 34 years ago. This means that anyone who voted in the last referendum will be a minimum of 52 when the next one happens.

Thats what really irritated me. The doctors on the video quoted some medical facts but really just opined on the matter. It was vague and not really relevant. The people (including the lady) will probably never have this issue impact on their life. They may know someone, or have a friend, but they are never going to have to experience being pregnant and at a crisis point.

It is so offensive to me that this basic right of bodily integrity is thrown around the Dail as political fodder- weve seen it over the past few years, it is a political hot potato. No one wanted to touch it, not really. Here we are though, finally but it still feels (to me anyway) that it is all a calculated political move. Lets just say that I dont feel that the interests of the politicians are with the women whose lives they have control over, rather than their own pensions. Maybe Im cynical.

Tying into the age thing and the video, the people who are legislating are not the demographic that they are legislating for (Im not saying that we should put toddlers in charge of childcare policy) and the Citizens' Assembly views were considered by the Oireachtas Report Committee and taken on board. Overall, I think the health policy plan is a reasonable one.

I just do not foresee this being a smooth road.

I will probably get told off for saying this so I'll make a disclaimer first: I completely respect and admire the fact that we all have a right to vote on issues of public importance. This is great.

I hate the fact that my bodily rights and that of my daughters are in the hands of (predominantly) middle aged and ageing men who are using this issue as political dynamite, rather than the important issue it is and will forever be for as long as women have a uterus.

The 13th and a14th amendments made a mockery of the 8th anyway. Just please give us the rights that should never have been a political matter in the first place.

I ended up ranting- sorry

Rant away banana 😅
I'm glad we have a safe place to talk

Women don't need their husbands consent in order to have a tubal ligation.

Babies born before 24 weeks can of course be blessed/baptised/buried in a Catholic graveyard.

Derry is in the UK.

40% of Irish people do not go to mass once a week, nor do 40% of Irish Catholics and at a guess I'd say even 40% of Irish mass-going Catholics don't!

All areas outside of Dublin are not oppressed and backward. I live in small town Ireland and there's definitely a much bigger "yes" presence.

Savita died of mismanaged sepsis. Her inevitable miscarriage was allowed to progress, making her more and more ill until she succumbed to overwhelming sepsis. Having read the report I'm not sure that anyone would have survived being that ill (regardless of the source of infection) with such bad medical care.

Just wanted to clarify some points.
I really, really hope it's a yes vote

Everything anotherday said 👍

I have never hoped more that I am wrong about something but in my opinion there is no way this will pass. The issue that will prevent it passing is the proposal to introduce abortion up to 12 weeks after. My own DH was always in favour of repeal by cannot bring himself to vote for it knowing that unlimited abortion up to 12 weeks will be the consequence. I believe this will be the case for a lot of people across the country. It would have been more sensible to propose restrictive legislation to replace the 8th (ie FFA only) and get the barbaric amendment out. We could have then got better legislation further down the line. As it stands if this fails (and I’m certain it will) it will be years before we even get another referendum.