Repeal the 8th

[SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace]

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

@larla the orieachtas report is here. Its a cross party committe. I stated the proposed word change to the Constitution earlier. It will be up to the Government to then legislate for the Constitutional provision if the referendum is passed.

Their health policy document (which will be the nuts and bolts of legislation issued after the referendum, if passed.) would seem to rely on this committee paper.

www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/committees/eighthamendmentoftheconstitution/Report-of-the-Joint-Committee-on-the-Eighth-Amendment-web-version.pdf

@larla - I want to vote yes but no sure what I am voting yes for.

A Yes vote is a vote to remove the 8th amendment from the constitution. What happens after that is a legislative matter. The planned legislation will allow abortion up to 12 weeks (that is 10 weeks after getting pregnant), or after that, for fatal foetal abnormalities or where there is a direct threat to the life of the woman.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of abortions up to 12 weeks are medical abortions so basically use the abortion pill. Irish woman are currently using these but they are obtaining them illegally. Some are obtained from charitable organisations who provide them to women in countries where abortion is illegal. However, if women get them from alternative sources, there is no guarantee as to what they are getting. Legalising abortion up to 12 weeks mean women can be sure of the safety of the pills they are taking and that they can have medical supervision when taking it.

Iarla, if you are prochoice what are your concerns with removing the 8th amendment?

Inniu I want it removed. I want women to be able access abortion if they need to. I don't think women should have to jump through hoops to get it as I really don't think most women would decide to have an abortion Willy nilly.
I want to know will there be conditions ie only if the baby will not survive outside the womb or where the mother life is in danger.
That would still leave a problem of women who can't afford to travel accessing potetionally unsafe pills. That's my concern.
However I know I will vote yes as It's the first step I suppose.

@larla - we have no guarantees that the government will legislate as they have suggested as it still needs to be approved by the Dáil. However, I think that the proposed legislation will go through.

My Sil has been campaigning for the Yes side and is canvassing in Galway, she said it's been really positive at the doors

That's good to hear Trinity66

Another €22,000 required to get to the €500,000 target. Donate at crowdfund.togetherforyes.ie

Good to hear Trinity66

Snowwhite, you would be amazed, a recent article in the Irish Times showed that older men (yes those retired golfers) who live in Ballsbridge were very rude to the pro repeal campaigner and shouted at her to leave their home, whereas the people who lived in Ringsend were more pro-repeal. I don't think the usual high income, more liberal applies here.
And as for all the men clogging up the airways with their anti women rants, I'm fed up to the back teeth!!!
Also, this stupid term "abortion on demand" as if women are only gagging to have an abortion if they can access it in the local GP clinic. Women will still make the same choices, but they will do them here. I had amnio tests on my last child - I was well over 40- and I was told that if I wanted to abort, they could not help me but if I looked up a hospital in Liverpool they would help me. It only hit home then how angry I was at being told to grab an airfare and hop across to another country to deal with any issues I had.
I was always prochoice and I grew up here in the midst of that awful '83 campaign where I remember virtue signallers wearing silver brooches of foetal feet!
I am amazed at the number of NO posters on lampposts all around where I live - in the most liberal area of the country, but I was in my hometown, small west of Ireland, at the weekend and there were no posters of any kind - perhaps the NO think they already have that demographic
Sorry for the rant, I'm delighted to have found a safe space to chat.

Rant away Annasgirl. It is nice to have a rant here as it is such an emotive subject and sometimes I feel like I'm talking to brainwashed people.

But Panit Bliss just posted this notice that he received from the ICBR. I've scribbled out the image as there is NO need for it.

That's shocking! Although I do think it is ironic that in the text they used altar instead of alter.....

Shows where they're coming from.

"the most liberal area of the country,"

Where's this? If you don't want to post that's fine - I'm just curious as I've genuinely no idea!

Was in Dundrum today - did see one Yes poster but did see a fair few No. Odd isn't it.

Stripysocks - Dunlaoghaire Rathdown constituency. All around me and on the way out from D8 and all through D8 is full of these NO posters. Although I saw Yes posters last night for the first time on my way to Sandyford. I wondered how the Yes side would campaign (I used to work in marketing) and it is a good strategy, the focus on trusting women in a time of crisis. They were the Labour Party posters.

BTW I used to spend time on an Irish politics site but left due to the utterly hateful misogyny of the rape trial coverage and also the repeal coverage. So great to find a safe space for a feminist without being called a feminazi.

Eightdays - I can only imagine that these people were not to the forefront in advocating gay marriage either!!!!!

I've seen lots of pbp yes posters in Dublin 3 and 9
The latest no poster I saw today was a woman with a cartoon baby drawn on her belly 🙄
It said "if killing a 6 month old baby bothers you, then vote No"

A British Religious Group Is Paying For Targeted Facebook Ads At Irish Voters Ahead Of The Abortion Referendum

The Catholic G.K. Chesterton Society is urging Irish Facebook users to vote against legalising abortion.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/a-british-religious-group-is-paying-for-targeted-facebook

NO campaigners at all to my door.

Annasgirl, would that be boards.ie

the misogyny on that board. I was banned for pointing out misogyny. Idiots.

About 9am this morning I almost took a Save the 8th leaflet from a woman outside a dart station. It was quite a misleading leaflet appearance wise as it was very colourful, cartoon type text and it was only as I was about to take it I actually read the wording and saw 'Reasons to Save the 8th'. I swerved away and said no thanks and got a loud tut in response.

Sounds to me like a Fundamental influence from the US, or a challenge to women to choose for themselves. Command and control again.

The irony as I see it is that within twelve weeks at the moment abortion is happening in bedrooms/bathrooms as we speak.

I personally think it is a controlling women thing. Again.

And so many men on the anti side AFAIS. What do they know about women's lives I ask myself.

@larla think we need to be mindful of language - don't think majority of women who have had a termination consider it a 'free for all'

On the way home from work saw a group of strange looking men in suits (think scientologists) standing at traffic lights which a gigantic poster of a baby covered in blood. Makes me so fucking angry. So happy to see Together For Yes has reached over 500k www.togetherforyes.ie

I grew up in the UK. I now live in Ireland, have done for thirteen years.

I know which way I will vote at the referendum. These posters, leaflets etc will not affect anyone. We all know which way we be voting already.

There are a couple of things I’d like to raise, though.

‘Pro abortion’. You can pro abortion my arse. Wanting to have the CHOICE doesn’t make you some sort of lady who uses it as birth control.

I think this is what pisses me off most. When I was pregnant with DD my ex wanted me to have an abortion. I made the choice not to.

I should have had that right, I should have been able to talk to someone, irrelevant of my uterus.

I’ve known two women who literally used abortion as birth control. They disgusted me. If and when this legislation goes through this will happen.

I will still vote the way I have intended to. One bad apple doesn’t spoil the bunch.

You've just compeletly contradicted yourself banana
Either women use abortion as birth control or they don't

My personal opinion is that if a woman has 10 abortions it's better than 10 unwanted children
I'd hope that the woman gets help as of course something has gone very wrong in her life
I would never think she shouldn't have access to abortion

I'd love to know who all these feckless irresponsible women are though
Ah I'm pregnant, fuck it I'll just go to the abortion clinic on the corner 🤔
Women can't be trusted apparently

I'm afraid many have bought into this narrative