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Original poster

Repeal the 8th

891 replies

SnowWhitesRestingBitchFace · 10/04/2018 20:30

So DH and I are currently visiting my DF and DStepM in Southern Ireland (where I grew up).

Just answered the door to a couple who are looking for support in the referendum and wanted us to pledge that we would vote no.

No for context I am just 6 weeks away from giving birth to DC3 (so clearly very heavily pregnant) and they still had the audacity to argue with me when I said I didn't agree with them and I supported any woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

They started trying to show me pictures of 10 week old babies in the womb (not necessary obviously in the circumstances) and weren't pleased that I didn't agree with them given that I'm carrying a baby myself.

I'm sorry I don't really have an actual AIBU I just wanted to rant a bit and show support for the people who have to face this absolute shit every day until the referendum. We're going home to the UK on Thursday so I won't have it all thrown in my face anymore but I just think the guilt tripping is horrendous 😞

OP posts:
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12
CelticSelkie · 12/04/2018 23:59

Glad to hear it Molly!

MiggledyHiggins · 13/04/2018 00:01

How could the repeal campaign be improved and made more positive?

Make it about consent during pregnancy. The whole way that miscarriages are mismanaged, the way that we can be forced by court order to have whatever procedures an obstretician deems.

It's not right that women can die from sepsis because they won't manage her miscarriage.
It's not right that an asylum seeker raped prior to arriving in Ireland and who is suicidal is unable to leave to obtain a termination and is forcefed until the foetus reaches viability and a c-section is performed on her.
It's not right that a cancer patient has her treatment withdrawn if she has a positve pregnancy test and is too ill to travel.
It's not right that we women face 14 years in jail for obtaining pills online to induce abortion.

The government are proposing that we remove the amendment. That's it. They have still to legislate and their legislation might still ban abortion. That's not ideal but ok, because it means that subsequent governments can address it. We may still have extensive restrictions on abortion. Again, not ideal but we will take it for now. Because it means that the women who may never have an abortion get access to full maternity care the way any other western country provides.

The citizens assembly concluded that there is no way to legislate for cases of rape /incest/ FFA. So they recommended that up to 12 weeks it's a matter between a woman and her doctor. After that, the recommendation is that only in cases where the mother's life is at risk or her health significantly at risk or FFA would she be considered for a termination. I think that's restrained and reasonable.

Slievenamon · 13/04/2018 00:09

The government are proposing that we remove the amendment. That's it. They have still to legislate and their legislation might still ban abortion

Thats not possible. A vote for repeal is a vote for termination up to 12 weeks, we all know that.

OkPedro · 13/04/2018 00:41

That's not how I've understood it slieve
The proposal is up to 12 weeks but it's not set in stone

A yes vote will ONLY remove the 8th

I imagine legislation won't get as far as 12 weeks unfortunately

MuddlingMackem · 13/04/2018 02:58

WillowWept Thu 12-Apr-18 12:23:58

The poster that has had me raging is the one that says:

"1/5 babies in England are aborted. Don't bring that to ireland"

Fucking hypocrites! It's already an Irish issue just one that is contracted out to the UK to deal with whilst ignoring the extent to which doing so exacerbates the pain and suffering of women.

It would be very interesting to know how many of the abortions carried out in England and Wales were on Irish women. Sadly, probably quite a few and, from the stories I've read on here, they're just the women who were lucky enough to be able to fund the trip.

| don't know if the yes campaigners can focus on the fact that just because they don't see or hear about it doesn't mean it's not already happening. And as someone else posted, wouldn't they rather it was done safely. If there is a national vanity that Irish healthcare is better than that of the UK is there any way of appealing to that maybe.

inniu · 13/04/2018 07:33

Slievenamon, you are wrong about that. A vote to repeal only repeals. It does not legislate to allow abortion.

The Dail will have to bring in legislation if the amendment passes. The current government is saying it will propose legislation allowing termination up to 12 weeks and for fatal foetal abnormalities but that has to pass in the Dail and could be changed by future Dails.

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 13/04/2018 07:42

Tbh I think very very few Irish people will be swayed either way by the campaign. People hold very strong views on abortion in Ireland. Loads of people hold with the view that human life begins at conception and therefore abortion is the taking of a human life. Then there is the whole notion of othering of women into some untrustworthy lot who need to be controlled for the good of the country. I think the less vicious this campaign gets the better for the yes side but I fear it will get vicious. It is extremely difficult to get this to pass.

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil · 13/04/2018 07:58

Inniu is completely correct. The proposed wording for the change in the constitution is ‘provision may be made in law for regulation of termination of a pregnancy’.

The legislation will have to be brought in by the Dail whom, if their health policy paper (based on the referendum passing) is to be believed will be based from the Oireachtas Committee’s report.

I ‘marmite’ this referendum. I love that we are finally waking up to women’s rights and considering them as something other than incubators; I hate all the rubbish being thrown around as fact as a voting tool.

My taxi driver never said truer word when he pointed at a lamppost with a poster on it- he said ‘everyone already knows which way they’re going to vote, a poster won’t change their mind.’

It’s very true.

LaurieMarlow · 13/04/2018 08:04

Fucking hypocrites! It's already an Irish issue just one that is contracted out to the UK to deal with whilst ignoring the extent to which doing so exacerbates the pain and suffering of women.

I agree. This fucks me off so much. It's despicable to take the moral high ground and then let the UK pick up all the dirty work - with all the cost that occasions for the woman in question.

StripySocksAndDocs · 13/04/2018 08:19

"

"In 2016, there were 4,810 abortions to women resident outside England and Wales, compared with 5,190 in 2015. Principally, 68% of non-residents were from the Irish Republic and 15% were from Northern Ireland"

That's from a report that summaries:

"There were 190,406 abortions carried out in England and Wales in 2016, slightly lower than in 2015 (191,014)."

So that's 1.72% of abortions in England and Wales are to women from Irish Republic in 2016. (1.85% in 2015.)

If my maths is right.

heateallthebuns · 13/04/2018 09:15

Are that 5,000 abortions from residents outside England and Wales included in the one in five pregnancies abortion stat? In which case it's meaningless.

Katiepoes · 13/04/2018 09:20

Thank you all for sharing the crowdfund.togetherforyes.ie/, I've donated. I can't vote as I'm too long away, I can at least do that.

I made one of those journeys to the UK in the early 90s. I do not regret it, but when I think of the stress and expense of trying to sort it all, the lack of support from my GP at the time - Irish women deserve better.

heateallthebuns · 13/04/2018 09:27

Sorry you had to go through that Angry can anyone donate?

heateallthebuns · 13/04/2018 09:34

Can't get crowd funding page to work. I can't get the page to move on from the payment page. I'm pressing next and nothing's happening. Do you need to put an eircode in?

inniu · 13/04/2018 09:57

Only Irish citizens or Irish residents can donate. Anyone else who would like to give financial support can buy merchandise.

I think you need to fill in all the details on the donation page before you can go to the next page

Katiepoes · 13/04/2018 10:04

You need to check a box saying you are either a resident or a citizen, it accepted mine as a citizen with a non-Irish address. It needs it all filled in as inniu says.

Slievenamon · 13/04/2018 10:09

Slievenamon, you are wrong about that. A vote to repeal only repeals. It does not legislate to allow abortion

In theory, yes, but in reality, no. We all know what the vote it for, there is no point pretending otherwise, it just makes us look like idiots.

StripySocksAndDocs · 13/04/2018 10:16

I think it's the 1 in 5 that's meaningless. There doesnt seem to be any stats backing it it up anywhere.

Nowhere compares number of pregnancies to number of abortions. Also there's no indication if the other 4 are pregnancies that ended with a live birth either.

Could every single known pregnancy including those that ended early with a miscarriage.

The 1 in 5 has no backing. Only quoted on anti-abortion sites.

There was a WHO report about worldwide rates. This report stated that the percentages where similar in all countries: even where abortion was restricted or wasn't legal.

Trinity66 · 13/04/2018 10:39

Most of the Vote No posters by where I work are illegible thanks to the rain, must be really bad quality Grin

Slievenamon · 13/04/2018 10:44

A few of them near me are illegible as well, thanks to spray paint.

Trinity66 · 13/04/2018 10:54

A few of them near me are illegible as well, thanks to spray paint.

Grin
heateallthebuns · 13/04/2018 12:20

Yeah stripy, I thought that. How are they allowed to state that? It's ridiculous.

heateallthebuns · 13/04/2018 12:27

Donation has worked now!

larla · 13/04/2018 14:06

I don't know what way to vote. I want to vote yes but no sure what I am voting yes for. I also understood that I was only voting for the government to legislate on abortation but what will that be. Will it be a free for all up to 12 weeks, will there be restrictions?
I am pro choice.
On a side note yesterday was the first time I heard of together for yes but I know all the love both.
What ever happens I hope that we are not the only county to vote no....again. Blush

Slievenamon · 13/04/2018 14:07

I don't know what way to vote.....I am pro choice

Then there is only one way to vote. By definition a no vote is anti-choice.