I'm trans, may I ask you a favour? Its about trans phobia.

[PeanutButterSquash]

I've been trans for more than half of my life and was one of the first in my part of the UK to get a GRC (over ten years ago!).
I have unfortunately experienced transphobic attacks (from physical attacks that hospitalized me to career damaging bullying and lower level bullying too) many times in my life though I admit it gets less and less year on year.
Trans phobia can take many many forms and doesn't yet have a defined legal position (something I think should change).
Here are a few things that aren't trans phobic.

Being respectfully gender critical
Disagreeing with self ID.
Disagreeing with self ID'ing men in women's spaces (and vice versa).
Disagreeing with transwomen competing in female only sports (due to biological disadvantage) are a few things that I note are called transphobic here.
Respectful debate isn't transphobic. Disagreement isn't transphobic.
I think calling "transphobia" over any sign of disagreement, debate or gender critical beliefs is actually more harmful to me and people like me.
will anyone take trans phobia seriously if this is all it takes to be called a transphobe?

Aibu to ask that you do that favour for me, and stop shouting transphobia (on or offline) at gender critical feminists?

Thank you. Feel free to respond and as ever you can disagree with me.

Anybody is welcome to screenshot, copy or link to my posts. I don't mind

Thank you, PBS! It is such a relief when someone like you understands the need to have the conversation.

Would it be too optimistic to hope that we are watching the last gasp of sexism? Maybe this is the issue that breaks open the topic once and for all. (I know what I mean, but am not expressing it well).

YADNBU peanutbuttersquash.

As you say, misuse of the word transphobic against people who are just trying to have a discussion about the changes in society, and potentially the law, and their effects on women and girls, minimizes it.

for all the shit you've had to put up with.

I wouldn't be happy sharing a female communal changing room with a guy who identifies as a woman. If the notice on the changing room at my local swimming pool states 'No boys over 8 allowed' then surely that should apply to anyone who still has male genitalia. How you want to dress walking down the street is your own business.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, Peanut. Sorry you've had such a hard time .

You put it much better than me..

But my comments were to transactivists.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3209903-to-say-not-in-my-name?

I know what transphobia is. I know what transphobia isn't.

I would have thought that we Brits would have learned by now that shutting down debate, getting all our grievances on the table and discussing them maturely was the way to go to improve everyones lives.

The same thing happened with Brexit. People were silenced and called bigots when they voiced a grievance, their resentment festered and as a result no one is happy.

We keep making the same mistakes over and over.

PBS I'm sorry that you've had to face such violence and fear IRL. I am glad it is becoming less frequent.

Thank you for making this point. YANBU. Accusations of transphobia (and TERFdom) have a tendency to escalate debates into increasingly rude territory and reduce empathy between opposing viewpoints.

I feel like most mumsnetters are supportive of trans rights, and those who are active on the feminism pages also want a thought-through debate as to where sex-based exclusivity really needs to be sex-based and where it can be gender-based. And then people start bandying insults about and everything starts going downhill fast.

Catspaws why do you want this very reasonable AIBU moved out of the way? Also, calling someone 'transphobe' is intended to stop debate. You know it is. Why are you scared of debate?
Peanut Thank you very much for your post - I think it's important that it stays just where it is. It seems that transactivists are trawling mumsnet to try to find something to complain about.

I agree with Catspaws

I'm sorry you've experienced transphobia Peanut.

Can I clarify, are you asking people stop calling things transphobic even if they truly think they are and would be prepared to debate why they think that? And that may include things on your list? Because that doesn't seem conducive to the aim of open debate.

Or are you simply asking people to have a good think about it before they go throwing the term around willy-nilly, because that would weaken it's meaning? Because that I would completely agree with.

I've seen a good number of almost this exact post in the past and I've never been quite sure what the pp's are trying to achieve.

When women are worried about their rights being eroded and also worried about their jobs because of accusations of hate speech, the stakes are high. Lots of women can't speak out and feel angry, silenced and sidelined.

I agree that debate is good. Debate in good faith. But if every time you raise issues someone accuses you of hate speech, there is no real debate. And telling women to shut up looks very like old school misogyny to me.

So thanks @PeanutButterSquash

Also - why are you posting here when you don't have an AIBU? Just for traffic? This would be better moved to the feminism or LGBT board.

Round up all those MIL, friendship and DH woes from AIBU and shove them in Relationships too.

OP
I agree that there need to be a proper definition of “transphobia” that way people who simply disagree with an ideology (the push of self ID etc.) can’t be tarred with the same brush as the people who assaulted you.

This would be better moved to the feminism or LGBT board.
Why? Does it only affect feminists and LGBT people, or can anyone be accused of transphobia?

This would be better moved to the feminism or LGBT board.

More like you'd want it tucked away from the high traffic boards, out of sight, because you don't agree with it.

OP asked a perfectly clear AIBU.

More like you'd want it tucked away from the high traffic boards, out of sight, because you don't agree with it

Yep - off to the ghetto with you ...

Great post, PBS.

And no I also don't see why an AIBU thread should be hidden away.

Anyone who doesn't want to read it is free to click either above or below it on the threads list.

op wanted it in aibu. OP asked an aibu. and it was a great post.

Sorry you have suffered real transphobia.

I'm entitled to argue with people who don't hold these views. Everyone is entitled to debate these things, to make a case for their views, and to criticise other views they consider unacceptable.

The OP has never said you're not allowed to do those things. She has simply requested that those who hold their own views, who disagree with self ID, are not labelled transphobic for doing so.

In fact debate and making a case are very welcome. Shutting down a debate which takes the opposite view by shouting transphobia isn't.

There is a time and a place for calling out transphobia though, isn't there. I mean it isn't just a transwoman being physically attacked is it. I don't think people should be discouraged from saying when they find siding transphobic and opening that up for discussion. They may be convinced they're wrong, but they may not. But that's what debate is for isn't it?

And look, I don't think anyone thinks opposing self-ID alone is transphobic; not all those who oppose self-ID are transphobes... but all transphobes oppose self-ID.

*something, not siding

What is your definition of 'transphobia' RatRolyPoly?

Do you think it's used to silence women though @RatRolyPoly? As well as when people genuinely feel it.

I actually think there's a case for it being sexism; not wanting someone with a penis in a woman's space. But not transphobia; when feminists would welcome transmen in the main. It's not about the trans, it's about the sex. I think it's acceptable, but clearly the case for sexism over transism (rather than phobia because that's stupid too).

YANBU.

I’m so sorry you’ve had to it up with such awful treatment. I agree that people yelling “transphobia” at any sort of conversation regarding self ID/women’s spaces etc. is minimising the word and thus causing damage to the trans community as a whole, who are deserving of protection from attack and bullying just as much as any other marginalised minority group. You have my sympathy for what you’ve been through and absolute respect for posting this. Thank you 💐

I was called transphobic once for pointing out that transwomen don’t suffer birth injuries and as a result was asked to leave my feminism group.

Surely that’s not transphobic?