I'm trans, may I ask you a favour? Its about trans phobia.

[PeanutButterSquash]

I've been trans for more than half of my life and was one of the first in my part of the UK to get a GRC (over ten years ago!).
I have unfortunately experienced transphobic attacks (from physical attacks that hospitalized me to career damaging bullying and lower level bullying too) many times in my life though I admit it gets less and less year on year.
Trans phobia can take many many forms and doesn't yet have a defined legal position (something I think should change).
Here are a few things that aren't trans phobic.

Being respectfully gender critical
Disagreeing with self ID.
Disagreeing with self ID'ing men in women's spaces (and vice versa).
Disagreeing with transwomen competing in female only sports (due to biological disadvantage) are a few things that I note are called transphobic here.
Respectful debate isn't transphobic. Disagreement isn't transphobic.
I think calling "transphobia" over any sign of disagreement, debate or gender critical beliefs is actually more harmful to me and people like me.
will anyone take trans phobia seriously if this is all it takes to be called a transphobe?

Aibu to ask that you do that favour for me, and stop shouting transphobia (on or offline) at gender critical feminists?

Thank you. Feel free to respond and as ever you can disagree with me.

Being called a funfem or handmaiden isn't an accusation of committing hate speech though is it? Not really comparable.

peanut

Catspaws
is this not a question then?

Aibu to ask that you do that favour for me, and stop shouting transphobia (on or offline) at gender critical feminists?

Totally agree OP 👍🏻

Catspaws
Cross post.
Respectfully, people use aibu to debate everything from parking disputes and MILs down to travel advice, health advice, relationship disputes, TTC questions, "aibu to like this dress". Etc. Its not exactly a strict topic!

Unless you could actually lose your job by being called handmaiden i dont think its the same

And i dont really understand why transphobic or homophobic or racist are ok to call someone because other people use phrases like handmaiden

Shouldnt be bandying about nasty names anyway (channels mother)

stitchglitched
I agree they're both on different levels but neither are constructive for debate, so I think insults and incorrect accusations of hate speech should be left at the door.

YANBU. Sorry you’ve had such a shit time OP No one should be bullied or attacked for who they are. It’s frustrating that questioning self ID gets interpreted as transphobic, and belittles true transphobia like that which you’ve experienced.

Great post Peanut! Your AIBU is clear to me.

I don't want to derail, but I think I also saw you on another thread That Must Not Be Named where some regular gender critical (or at least GC friendly) trans posters were talking about the violence and harassment they had actually received from men and some posters were minimising this (for example, being bashed by men) - I just wanted to say that I recognise this clearly as transphobia and will join with you in fighting this.

Oh and snowflake

Dont get me started on snowflake

And how do you come back from this

'I think you are racist'

'Well im not because...errmm...'

Big hugs to you Peanut. A very good and thoughtful post. Hopefully the reasoned voices will start to break through the noise; something is very wrong when attempts at debate are shut down with accusations of being a 'TERF' etc. It's even more worrying when completely un-associated events - such as the recent clothing swap to help women and children in poverty - are cancelled or no-platformed, due to threats of picket action and deliberate disruption by radical trans-activists simply because the organiser(s) does not subscribe to their views.

Thank you everybody.
I find it particularly sad when events are shut down even more so when they're not even trans related eg the community clothes swap. I've attended a few (not that one though!) And it was a massive help when my kids were younger and all in very different sizes. Meant I wasn't constantly broke!
There is no need for them to be shut down, unless there's a dripfeed I haven't seen yet and the organizer had written "kill all transpeople" on all of the clothes or something, which I gather was not the case..

YANBU Peanut and Cat I don’t think any slur you listed on your list belongs in respectful debate which is kind of the point of the OP.

Excellent post OP.

I share your view on this. It's similar to when there was a post about a woman finding out her DH was sleeping with men...anyone who suggested it she left him was called homophobic.

Throwing words around judt because someone disagrees with you isn't good.

This reminds me of India from Big brother.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST!

Thread on the cancelled clothes swap here.

Peanut So sorry you've experienced such violence, bullying and abuse, I'm so glad to hear it's reducing year on year. That is something no one should experience, there is no excuse for it. I think self ID is a badly thought out idea and will cause a host of unintented consequences unless it's much better discussed, thought through and structured, and I believe very much in safety, respect and meeting of different but equal needs for all. The two beliefs are not mutually exclusive, and I agree with your list: discussion is not transphobia.

This sort of reminds me of the thread where the poster wanted everyone to stop using the word 'moron'. Thing is, with all the best will in the world; you can't really police people's thoughts, and to varying extents their speech. I agree with your wider point but I'm afraid it won't really make a smidgen of difference.

Thanks again all

VladmirsPoutine
It may not change anything but its cost me nothing to try

Thank you for this! I am really worried about self id and the erosion of women's spaces but also like to consider myself open and not 'phobic' of anything except scuzzy bathrooms.

@PeanutButterSquash thank you.

I have often had an internal debate with myself about some of the things you write about.

May I screen shot your post and use it online please? Though I worry some of the info could be identifying if someone really wanted to find out who you are.

Thank you for this!

@catspaws

What would your response be to the many trans women who do consider lots of things on your list transphobic?

I think OP answered that immediately below the list:

Respectful debate isn't transphobic. Disagreement isn't transphobic.
I think calling "transphobia" over any sign of disagreement, debate or gender critical beliefs is actually more harmful to me and people like me.

Thanks for your post, peanutbuttersquash. The debate/lackof/namecalling around this gets disheartening at times, and it all seems to run round in circles

Petition here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

YANBU OP, and thank you for posting.

I am pleased to see more transwomen posting on this stuff on mumsnet, and I'm sorry for the genuine transphobic abuse and violence you have suffered