Fecking hoarding by proxy. Anyone else have relatives who do this?

[TheQueenOfWands]

My mum just found an old, filthy, partially deflated football near my house.

It's now in my garden. The same garden which I've recently spent great time and expense tidying up and decorating.

Why? Well, I'll tell you why. Apparently a child will be 'overjoyed' to receive it once it's been cleaned up and reinflated. Also, there's too much stuff in landfill so it's obviously not on to simply throw it out.

Today is my only day off from work. I worked 72 hours last week and 50 this week. I have no interest in laundering footballs and don't have a clue how I'd reinflate it. I also don't know any children, let alone any who would be overjoyed to receive a vaguely scrubbed, badly inflated foot ball.

This isn't the first time she's done this. My parents do this quite a lot.

It's such a shame to throw something out so obviously I have to make use of it or DS would be thrilled with it.

Aaargh!!

Doesn't help that I've recently been decluttering (much love to Marie Kondo) and am happy doing so.

They know this. Yet are still determine to fill my house with crap or visibly recoil when they see me give/throw something away.

For people who think they are dealing with a mental health problem this is a link to some basic information www.nhs.uk/conditions/hoarding-disorder/

If people need support themselves this link may be helpful childrenofhoarders.com/wordpress/?page_id=4270 This is not the home page, I've linked to this page as it mentions some points that other posters have mentioned. In particular, control and the 'negative emotions' people can express when people try to help.

If it's not a mental health problem, all I can think to suggest is that people work on their boundaries.

I've name changed to add to this as it's probably a bit outing.

Our landlady (who recently died) owned her house, our house and the house opposite us, all in the same very small street. Each house has a garage in a block at the end. Her son and his wife and dc live in the third house and we were supposed to have a garage with ours. She had also purchased a fourth garage from another house owner.

All four garages are wall to wall, floor to ceiling with 'stuff'. We had to be refunded a years rent on the garage as we've never been able to access it. We now rent the garage from the lady next door who doesn't use hers.

The landlady's son (who is probably now our landlord) has 12 vehicles in the street, only four of them actually roadworthy. Most of them are 'projects' or 'spares and repairs' for other cars. They literally arrive and remain where they are and are never touched. They have furniture from long dead relatives stacked in garages and in his mum's house.

There are also the sheds. Two in his garden (full - including over 20 bikes in various stages of repair) and one at his mums plus 2 here. One of ours still has a pile of his crap in it.

The issue is he still buys more stuff. He has endless ebay accounts to avoid the taxman and is always buying bargains and things to do up. His poor wife must want to kill him half the time. She works part time, he doesn't work. And now he has our rent money going direct to him it's more cash for him to spend on markets and ebay. The last time I went in their house they had boxes of stuff in the living room and conservatory plus all the way up the stairs.

I don't know whether they plan on selling the third house now or renting it out but I suspect it will be just filled with 'stuff'.

My mum does this, we call her Grandma Womble as a result.

Eve I don't disagree that people with mental health issues need support and sympathy (god knows we've plenty in our family, me included!) but where you say aiming to get someone who is possibly suffering from a mental health problem to recoil is cruel I would say that knowing and accepting how a person will react is not aiming to cause the reaction.

You might think I'm nitpicking there but I don't think I am. Allowing the person to recoil/be upset/hurt is not causing it and in the situations posters have outlined, attempting to avoid the negative reaction requires you to accept the behaviour.

Like you if it was my mum I'd have a conversation with her and try to get her to see she has a problem but let's be honest, it's more likely to be a number of conversations over time, gradually getting to "Mum, we have talked about this, I don't want these things, I've told you this, please stop, I'm not keeping this, it's going in the bin". She'll react how she reacts but that's not something anyone else can control or take responsibility for.

Grandma Womble!

I like that!

I am a child of 2 hoarders. Both parents are hoarders but different styles.

It is hard.

CocoPuffsInGodMode That was my response to BrendaUmbrella's post that stated 'Tell her you put it in the bin. Let her recoil.' It seemed like she is suggesting the OP to do something with the simple aim of getting her mother to recoil. Brenda is not suggesting that the OP do anything constructive or helpful, she was suggesting the OP do something intentionally to upset her mother. How is that helpful?

I haven't suggested people 'accept the behaviour'. I have suggested encouraging people with a possible mental health problem to go to the doctor, that people read up on ways to help people with mental health disorders that cause hoarding and I have mentioned that there is support for children of hoarders.

I also said that if it isn't a mental health issue then people should work on their boundaries. Even if it the OP's mother doesn't have a mental health problem, throwing something out just to watch her recoil is a very unhelpful passive aggressive way to deal with the issue imo.

You can't control how other people react to things, but you talk problems through with them, you can also seek help and advice, set boundaries and assert yourself. I think you can do these things without being cruel or passive aggressive.

My MIL does this - she's in her early 60s so not a war baby. It's a way of life for her - she will go to discounted places and wait for the second sale and buy something she doesn't need and try to "give" it to somebody. Anybody. She'll say "yes I know it's broken / too big / the DC'S feet are not this size anymore/ you are allergic to this / you don't have room for it / you already have the exact same one". She is very put out by polite refusals, then she'll say "funnily enough BIL, neighbours etc didn't want it either".

I always refuse politely. Years ago I accepted something old and mismatched that we didn't want or need out of politeness- then years after she saw it in our house and she accused me of stealing it!

It’s so frustrating.

Dh is a hoarder as is his mum and dad. They’ve given us special tresured childhood toys for the kids that they have saved for years.
I can’t get rid of the damn things as they are so “special”

Dh’s hoarding is getting better but he’s still shit. My next project is to get him to tidy up the clutter of shit under the stairs. I’m sick of it.

No, I don't think it's helpful to hide the throwing away.

People who have mental health problems around hoarding aren't really helped long term by family members pretending this is normal behaviour and letting them think they don't have a problem. Seeing that it's normal to throw away crap/junk may upset them, but pretending it's ok to collect up other people's rubbish and store it is not helpful in the long term either.

Mind you, from OPs further posts, this isnt about someone who has a complusion to hoard, it's about someone who is trying to take over and control the OP's space, even though she's left home. Therefore standing up to her is the best option. Of course the person trying to control someone else wno't like it. The alternatives are either the OP allowing herself to be controlled, or pretending she is (while secretly throwing stuff out). Neither of these are good options for the OP's mental health.

My brother was a hoarder, of the kind where you can't see the floors or walls for stuff. You know when people put unwanted stuff outside their house with a sign saying 'help yourself'? Well, he just couldn't resist this, especially anything electrical. Consequently he had a huge collection of useless hi fi's, speakers tvs etc. He had major mental health problems though, and this was just one manifestation of it.

Today's incident has encouraged me to order the new lock.

She has a way of making me feel very 'invaded'. Happy to go into my bedroom, open drawers, read my post, etc.

I suffer with depression and anxiety and having a 'safe space' is a big thing.

Quite excited about the thought of them not being able to get in. I have a week off work soon and I like the idea of being safe and contained for the week.

CoffeeOrSleep I'm not sure if the beginning of your post is aimed at me? Let me try and be clearer just in case it is.

If you are dealing with a person with a mental health disorder, throwing items away just to get a negative reaction out of a person i.e. to see them get upset or distressed, seems to be a passive aggressive or cruel thing to do imo.

Discussing why the item is useless and should be discarded (with a possible conversation about their mental health) then throwing the item away and getting a negative reaction is an attempt at being constructive.

If you research hoarding and recidivism, you will find that the recidivism rate for people who have their belongings thrown out without additional support is 97%. Getting rid of the clutter doesn't get rid of the problem if it's due to a mental health problem. The mental health problem needs addressed or you could be doing more harm than good. I'm not saying that family members do nothing, or that they should enable people with their hoarding. I am saying that this is a difficult, stubborn and complex problem that needs to be addressed the right way.

The OP doesn't think her mother has a mental health problem. I, personally, would still find it a bit goady if the OP made a big show of throwing the football away just to get a negative reaction from her mother. The OP should have been assertive and told her mother she didn't want it in the first place. She should get rid of the football and say no next time and/or tell her mother she doesn't want her giving her any more items in the future. Repeating no as necessary, preferably without being goady.

CocoPuffs I'm definitely going to get the book. I've made a good start getting rid of loads of things I have kept 'just in case' and old Birthday/Christmas cards I have no idea why I kept.

I am in the right mindset now. I can see a way to live without the burden of all the things. It really does weigh you down.

TheQueenOfWands She goes in your drawers and reads your mail?! Serious boundary issues. You definitely need to change the locks and make sure you never give her a key. I'm sure you can find someone more respectful to hang on to your spare. Have you considered an assertiveness class?

This thread is strengthening my resolve to step up my anti-hoarding campaign. I have a MIL who forcefully piles us up with junk whenever we visit despite my increasingly desperate excuses. DP brings home all kinds of broken junk which he plans to repair but never does, and DSD is constantly buying things for us to indulge her shopping by proxy habit. I never say if I want something because I know it will arrive and I won't get to choose it or just have the simple fun of making a purchase. Clearly it runs in the family.

Time to end my Mumsnetting this afternoon in favour of a recycling centre run.

Thanks OP, for making me feel a bit less alone and a bit more determined

My mom recently did this to me. Bear in mind my house is being decorated from the drug dealers paradise it once was.
Anyway I have a lot of my mom's furniture she's collected but can't store (bit of a hoarder) anyway, there's a wall where I've intended to eventually put up a breakfast bar in my kitchen or have something there for my dcs. (like a play kitchen) and she didn't tell me, but she bought me this unit as she fell in love with it..
It came into two parts and at the moment, I'm dd likes to run around in her walker and try and totter about on her own and we put the pieces on top of one another and I was so worried it'd fall on her. It doesn't screw together.
I was furious not to mention the room it took up because she wanted it. :(

I have a relative in South America, who my PIL visited last year. Said relative was getting rid of some CDs at a flea market but PIL insisted that my DH would love them (dozens) and brought them back from South America in their luggage.

We don’t have a CD player.

TheQueen it makes you feel like you're being invaded because that's precisely what she's doing! Reading your post, dictating how your house should look, insisting on having a key? She's extremely overbearing and still thinks this is an adult/child relationship where she knows best.

I know it's not easy to put a stop to it but it is doable. You just have to decide that you're fine with the sulking and the injured feelings and put some boundaries in place. It surely can't make you feel more stressed and fed up than the current behaviour you're putting up with, can it? You say: No mum, you can't have a key because you don't respect my privacy. Don't let her draw you into any debate or arguments over whether her behaviour is reasonable or not (hint - she thinks it is ) just stick to your guns. If you don't deal with it she'll just carry on riding roughshod over you.

I've had similar with one of mine, they do eventually grudgingly get the message though there will probably be sulking and tantrums while they fight the changes. It's worth it in the end though!

twounder freecycle or ebay it. Do not reward your mom and punish yourself by keeping it.

Tell her bluntly "it didn't fit with my plan"

She does a lot for me and I am greatful, she has my best intentions I suppose.
It was just the fact its unsafe with my dcs, it doesn't attach to the wall either meaning someone will have to come and attach it diy and I was heavily pregnant when it arrived and I couldn't even open my back door to get to the bins because it was in the way

queen I don't wish to be alarmist but keep your new keys locked up safely.

My DM has been known to go to great lengths to get copies of family members' keys after they've changed the locks.

twound it doesn't matter how much she does for you or if her intentions were good or bad. It messes up your plan so it goes. "Thanks for the thought mum but it just didn't work for us, I've sold it and spent the money on a breakfast bar."

If she gets the hump, tell her to check with you next time.

Yes, I'll be hiding the keys.

I've been here before but they managed to get a key out of me eventually.

They kicked up a huge stink and broke my back gate in an attempt to get in, kind of rammed it until the wood split rendering the bolt useless. Then threw stones at DS's window.

He was out. I was asleep after a night shift.

Did you let them in?