For my friend not to tip

[kangar00]

My friend suggested we meet up at a local chain restaurant as they are currently doing kids meal free with any adult main. On arrival she said that she has taken advantage of this offer lots over the holidays. She ordered a £7.95 salad and tap water. When we came to pay she put out £8 cash. I was paying by card so tried to subtly hint saying 'would you like me to add a tip' to which she replied 'I'm not working at the moment so i don't tip' and then walked off to take her daughter to the loo. I paid and added 10% of my meal. Is she being unreasonable to take advantage of this offer so often (about 4 times over the last 2 weeks) and pay the bare minimum or maybe she is just being savvy? I would feel really awkward returning to the same place knowing I was being a bit of a cheap skate. So as not to drip feed, it is true that she isn't working and has a preschooler. On the other hand she has a BTL (no mortgage on it) and has chosen not to work. However she is a single mum so this makes it harder. I suppose I most impressed/taken back by her confidence in saying she won't tip.

I do think it’s quite rude not to rip if service has been good. Most places the whole tip doesn’t just go to the waiter - percentages go to the chefs, the potwash, the food runners if a restaurant has them. All people on pretty poor wages doing quite stressful jobs. I go for 10% as a standard, more if it’s been good. But then maybe I’m biased as my son was a waiter all through his GCSE year and sixth form and because he’s good with people he often doubled his (minimum) wage in tips (he got to keep 70% of his tips). I think it showed him the benefits of hard work.

I don't think your friend was being unreasonable, she paid the advertised price.

In a chain restaurant i tend not to tip as its usually some one bringing out food ive ordered and paid for at the bar. However, i will tip if some one has gone above and beyond.

I've worked as a waitress before, in.a fancy restaurant and it was bloody hard. I hated it and was crap at it (the order system and computer program was really hard!) and all tips were saved for a "staff night out" which was annoying as this never seemed to materialise!

When i worked in a pub i served meals and that was easy! I got far more tips there (probs due to the drink!).

I really wouldn't have given it a second thought tbh!

Been a barmaid, waitress, and a load of other minimum wage jobs. I worked just as hard, even when the 'lure' of tips wasn't an option.

Tipping gives mean employers the excuse to pay poor wages.

Never add a tip to a card payment, guaranteed the staff don't get it.

I work in a restaurant on minimum wage, so can say how greatly received tips are from customers. They are however, definitely not expected, and certainly not a requirement.
Yes waiting on and kitchen staff are usually only on minimum wage and the amount is ridiculously low, but so are many other professions where tips wouldn't even be an option.

I think YABU to be so judgy of your friend and I applaud her confidence, because I know I would feel cheap for taking up the offer so often and then only ordering minimal and not tipping, but not because I am being cheap or wrong and instead because many others judge and would make me feel that way.

I know tipping is optional, but restaurant staff are paid very badly and many rely on tips to pay their rent

In the UK? They need to look for a better employer then.

Nobody has to tip, its not compulsory.

In the UK, everyone 'tips' in the sense of paying for service- service is included in the bill. Anything above that for fab service is down to the individual. The US is completely different, service is never included and goes direct to your server, as a tip.

OP was presumptuous and a little rude.

I would feel really awkward returning to the same place knowing I was being a bit of a cheap skate.
she has a BTL (no mortgage on it) and has chosen not to work

@kangar00. Presumably you don't like her? Why are you wasting your/her time going for meals together?

I suppose I most impressed/taken back by her confidence in saying she won't tip.

She just understands UK restaurant etiquette better than you, and doesn't feel obliged to do something just because you say so. I await the massive drip feed that this is in the US.

If you feel that strongly why not choose “chain restaurants” that pay living wage instead of the minimum

The restaurant chose to offer that deal and there is no obligation to tip anyone. Sometimes I wonder whether SOME people like to tip to show off how very generous and affluent they are. When they could just patronise businesses who pay ethically all the time, not just when you fancy popping in for lunch with your swag bag of change for tipping

The UK has had NMW since 1999 people.
Waiters and waitresses are not "very poorly paid" compared with all other unskilled jobs. They are paid the same. There are thousands upon thousands of people who work in all sorts of different jobs that are paid the NMW.
Of course, we can have a debate about whether the NMW is enough to live on, if it should be more, the economics of businesses surviving if everyone's wages were higher and would we all pay higher prices for those services, etc., etc. I think there's a lot of work to be done about pay differentials but surely everyone can see there is no logic in the very old fashioned view that those working in one particular trade expect tips, whereas the thousands of other workers not only don't expect tips, but actually aren't allowed to take them - lets say care workers as a great example who often go above and beyond, and certainly do form close bonds with their 'clients'.

And I say that as someone who tips, when appropriate. Btw when you pay gratuity through the card machine it won’t necessarily make it to your server - usually the company “taxes” it and splits it between all the staff. So hardly worth getting high and mighty about your grand gesture which will likely amount to a few pence.

OK so I probably wrote my OP incorrectly. It's more about this which another poster wrote:
Well the restaurant won't want many people going in, only buying one adult meal and that being the cheapest thing on the menu, not buying any drinks and taking the free child's meal. If everyone did that, the offer wouldn't last long. They want people to spend more than that to make it worthwhile.

Anyway, this thread has changed my view on tipping and made me feel less guilty if I don't do that is good!

As far as I'm aware tipping is definitely the norm in the UK with a 10% average, never been to a restaurant with anyone who has suggested otherwise (unless service included). When I worked as a waitress back in the day someone who repeatedly never tipped would not be likely to get a good table or be prioritised at busy times.

People in the UK are paid a wage! They don't need to be tipped for a job they're already being paid to do! Do you tip the bus driver? Do you tip the bin men? Do you tip the cleaner who cleans the restaurant? Why tip waiters and no one else?

Here in the States you are expected to tip and the going rate is 15%. I think it is 10% if you’re not happy with the meal/service and 20% if you are really happy with it.

My British dad thought my American husband was crazy doing this, especially when he tipped for a pub meal for 7 people who we were visiting England. He thought Americans are just splashy but it is considered poor etiquette or even unethical not to tip here. Keep that in mind when you’re on holiday here.

Well the restaurant won't want many people going in, only buying one adult meal and that being the cheapest thing on the menu, not buying any drinks and taking the free child's meal. If everyone did that, the offer wouldn't last long.

The restaurant would like everyone to go in and order champagne and garlic bread (big mark up). I would like a gold toilet. You can't always get what you want.

The restaurant know that a certain proportion of customers will be smart about their purchases. They will price such that they still make a profit against their marginal costs for these customers. They also know that the offer draws in many other customers who will cover their fixed costs with a large profit margin. Restaurants have high fixed costs- they fail when they are empty.

I think if you want this person to remain a friend you need as much empathy for them as you show for chain restaurants.

I know tipping is optional, but restaurant staff are paid very badly and many rely on tips to pay their rent.

^Crap argument that. How many other jobs are on minimum wage but don’t get tipped. Why should only restaurant staff get tipped?

it is considered poor etiquette or even unethical not to tip here. Keep that in mind when you’re on holiday here.

@Charolais. Thanks for that. In the UK we get very little exposure to US culture, so I'm sure everyone learned something today.

I tip everyone- waiting staff, hairdresser, aa man, window cleaner, taxis the lot.
I would be embarrassed to be with someone who didn't tip unless the service had been really poor.

When I worked in a pub / restaurant as previous poster said it's more normal people don't tip than do these days. Most places split the tips as well between all staff so a waitress that does the bare minimum still gets the same as one who works their arse off. When I was part time waitressing I would only make an extra £50 tops per month (often less ) so it in no way goes towards rent or anything

If big chain companies won't do it then customers should.

Why???
I'm not against tipping, but I don't see why on earth i should* tip because big chain companies aren't paying more than minimum wage. That's a massive stretch in expectation surely? There are lots of jobs that pay minimum wage and probably should pay more but don't require customers so tipping wouldn't factor in tipping up wages so your logic here is completely flawed.

The are lots of jobs out there that only pay minimum wage or just above, some with lots of responsibility, some involving lots of hard work or long hours. Most of them don't receive tips.

Tipping is very outdated.

Assuming it was a table-service restaurant, not ordering from a counter, then I think your friend was being a cheapskate for not tipping. And I would be silently judging her.

But it's up to her how often she goes there to take advantage of the special offer. That's just marketing.

Notasunnybunny: re: "If I can't afford 20% extra I can't afford to eat out."

Just out of interest - If you see a top in a shop that you liked, priced £35, do you pay £42 at the till, because the cashier, cleaner, etc. there work hard for minimum wage?

How about your council tax? Do you pay your extra 20% to go to the staff? Because when I got my first job out of uni as an admin assistant in the council tax department I earned less per hour than I had during my p/t waitressing job.

Care home for your parents? You pay the £900 per week plus a voluntary extra £180 for all the minimum wage carers right? Or do you think "If I can't afford that then I can't afford for mum/dad to get cleaned and fed."

Lots of other examples I hope you pay your smug extra 20% to. If not...why is waitressing the only thing that's different?

chocolate
"Running back and forth to serve the customer"
Errrr isn't that in a general job description of waiting staff?