To wonder who is actually responsible for rising murder rates in london

[SaucyJane]

So slimy frog faced Nigel Farage is blaming Sadiq Khan as mayor and particularly for reducing stop and search. There are also other calls for Khan to resign.

But surely there is only so much Khan can do if the government makes huge cuts to the police. And weren't those cuts made under Maggie May?

I didn't vote for Khan to be the mayor, and I am no fan of his, but it seems to me that it is unfair to blame it on him, and that the answer is probably partly government cuts and partly some of his changes since being mayor.

AIBU?

If the stuff is legal to possess,

Decriminalisation is not the same as legal, that's why you are confused.

What practical difference does it make? You can possess it without being prosecuted.

Sigh. Again Social structure, interactions and resulting crime don't really adhere to maths rules.

Yes they do actually. In the sense that you can take differences into account when using statistics.

All of which means that with the same level of policing, proportionally, London has more issues than other large cities.

This is wrong actually on several levels. Firstly, several cities including Manchester and Birmingham have proportionally worse problems with crime. But they’re not seeing the same rapid rise London is.

Secondly, London already has more funding and more police than other parts of the country. Which is why comparison using percentages is useful as it shows the effects of nationwide policy.

If London were having it’s policing reduced to the levels of Devon whilst Devon was remaining static you might have a point. But that’s not what’s happening. Or if London was facing proportionally more cuts so it’s special status with more police was removed. But that’s not happening either, instead funding is dropping proportionately. So the fact that London might have higher crime or bigger problems is irrelevant as that is already factored into the funding they receive. And if nationwide funding cuts were responsible you would expect to see these rises mirrored to at least some extent across the country because other forces have had the same proportion cut regardless of whether they are a sleepy rural force or a high crime city.

But no other areas are having the same problems. It’s something unique to London. It’s not because of nationwide cuts. If it was it would be happening elsewhere too.

I don’t even get what makes people want to live in London anymore. You can live outside and commute in, in less time that living in some parts. Not a place I would take my children too crowded and full of drug gang culture and I have family living there but still won’t visit the place.

So if the murder rate in London isn't rising, as several posts earlier suggested, does that change anything in people's posts??

Having rung 999 two months ago and reported a family member with a weapon downstairs while I was barricaded in upstairs, and having had the police response of a phone call with no-one attending, then if there really has been a rise in the murder rate, I would suggest a role for the downgrading of the emergency service response due to funding pressures, and other areas will soon show similar rises, if there has been a rise.

If the rate has been static, what then?

Making drugs legal does not mean people suddenly take more of them.

Drugs being legal or illegal doesn't change the numbers of people taking them. If you want to take them, you will find them and do it, and if you don't, you won't do it even if they're legal and sold in Boots.

Making drugs legal does not mean people suddenly take more of them.

Well, we don't know that for a fact. Making things illegal does reduce consumption at the margins: prohibition did reduce alcohol consumption in the USA, because at least some people were sufficiently indifferent that they stopped drinking. The problem was that any social benefits were hugely outweighed by the market created for organised crime: it's not hard to build the argument that puritan laws about drinking and gambling ("numbers games") basically created organised crime in the USA. And when prohibition was repealed, alcohol consumption probably did increase, although the evidence is sketchy because the consumption of illegal alcohol was hard to quantify, as was the (legal) manufacture of alcohol at home.

Again, note that rich and connected people were able to drink good quality imported (ie, smuggled) liquor, while poorer people ended up drinking dangerous distillates of uncertain quality. It wasn't Dorothy Parker going blind from methanol poisoning.

The murder rate in London is rising. There were 130 murders in total in London last year. There have already been 55 murders this year and if it continues at these levels we’re on track for 181 murders this year.

That’s a 40% rise. How anybody can say there is ‘no rise’ is beyond me.

I don’t even get what makes people want to live in London anymore. You can live outside and commute in, in less time that living in some parts. Not a place I would take my children too crowded and full of drug gang culture and I have family living there but still won’t visit the place.

What silly sweeping statements. People have lives here. Property, schools, friendships, settled children, work, opportunities. Financial inability to just move out to The Burbs even if they wanted to. It's a big place you know, it's leafy with huge swathes of wild green areas, quiet, beautiful and cultured in much of it and if everyone moved out then all the problems would just splat down on your doorstep wouldn't they? Are you ready for that?

What practical difference does it make? You can possess it without being prosecuted.

If you read about the Portuguese model you'll find out.

If people did not use drugs there would be no demand .....

New Labour’s immigration policy - rubbing the right’s nose in diversity?

don’t even get what makes people want to live in London anymore.

Er some of us have been born here, brought up here, have all our generations of families and support networks here?

I've lived here my entire life and never been stabbed, shot, mugged or even had anyone try to sell me drugs. My 17 yo brother does smoke weed but then so do my cousins in the cotswolds. All of us have done well at school.

I live in an apparently gritty part of SE London now and for the most part all I see in my day to day existence are MC families. If anything to me part of the reason why things are bad now is the gap between rich and poor is worse than it was - let's face it, many people who are Londoners by birth can no longer afford to live here. There has been a massive influx of MC, white, well off people. When I was growing up it was more mixed.

Not a place I would take my children too crowded and full of drug gang culture and I have family living there but still won’t visit the place.

Yeah, pop over to the British Museum or the Royal Opera House and it's just gangs shooting at each other and crackheads I'm corners

Sheesh. Fear of having people with such daft opinions as neighbours is what stops me moving out of London, frankly.

I live a ten minute walk away from the site of one of these shootings and despite how alarming that sounds I don’t feel unsafe. The community here is great and currently pulling together to discuss how we can deal with this issue.

LOL at PancakeBum. It’s true, tne road I live in in S London has the strongest community friendliness of anywhere I have lived in the country. London is such a great place to live if you have affordable housing. A great public transport system (extremely safe), so much going on, fantastic people, great schools, great opportunities, and people with open minds!

It is, however, a tragedy for young people caught up in the very specific estate based gang stuff. For them it is extremely hard to escape, for the rest of us you wouldn’t necessarily know it was going on.

PancakeBum

Completely agree with you & defo more of a mixed community when I was young. I think it’s because the school catchment area wasn’t such a thing or perhaps if you were born here you more likely to mix? The road I grew up on was pretty mc in the 80s but loads of us kids played out in the street although thinking about we were all offspring of immigrants. Now my mums new neighbours are putting big fences/gates around their drive & you don’t see who lives there let alone a child playing outside.

born here as in in London.

Maybe controversial to say this but most people who perpetuate the “rude Londoners” myth aren’t actual born n bred. For one thing growing up in S London you learn it’s not always a good thing to be facety to randoms 😂

it's true you can say what you like about South London but its the most genuinely community minded place I have ever lived.
where I live now, in the deep country, people bang on about 'community' but what they mean is, 'who we exclude'.

it is true Pup, most of those who spread the 'rude Londoner' myth are from up north; they just want to show that they are 'the best'.
Londoners are perfectly friendly, within normal reason.