To wonder who is actually responsible for rising murder rates in london

[SaucyJane]

So slimy frog faced Nigel Farage is blaming Sadiq Khan as mayor and particularly for reducing stop and search. There are also other calls for Khan to resign.

But surely there is only so much Khan can do if the government makes huge cuts to the police. And weren't those cuts made under Maggie May?

I didn't vote for Khan to be the mayor, and I am no fan of his, but it seems to me that it is unfair to blame it on him, and that the answer is probably partly government cuts and partly some of his changes since being mayor.

AIBU?

I have a ton of gabapentin at home that I take. My GP is twitchy about it because you need so much (in boxes) in one go as they come in 300 or 100 and if you take 2000mg a day well it’s a lot of tablets. It will go to be a controlled drug soon I think. The first time I took it I was off my face

Jaysus apart from ket and ecstasy that list is awful. I take Queitapine for sleep. That’s not a drug it’s an old lady sleeping aid!

I remember the old days when drugs were drugs and all this were fields!

It does make a point for arguments in favour of legalisation though.

Cocaine? When I was at uni 3 years ago it was all about MDMA.

The only time I've seen someone doing coke was in a club - she stuck a key into the bag and snorted it off that.

take Queitapine for sleep. That’s not a drug it’s an old lady sleeping aid!

It's an antipsychotic actually. Have you had an ECG done recently?

Cocaine is the Mumsnet of drugs really isn’t it? All middle class and middle aged.

Yes gabapentinoids will soon be class C thank goodness.

fruitcider, it is prescribed off label for sleep too. I haven’t had an ECG recently no, but I don’t take it regularly, it’s once or twice a month at a very low dose when my sleep cycles go out of kilter rather than a daily dose. Thanks for the tip though, will mention to my GP next time I’m there to see if it needs monitoring.

*If it was police cuts by the Tories you would expect similar rises in crime nationwide as police budgets have been cut nationwide.

This simply isn’t happening outside of London at anywhere near the same levels. So whatever is causing it is likely to be something unique to London, which would obviously be Sadiq Khan and Mayoral involvement with policing.

It’s simple logic it’s got to be down to Khan’s policies. I don’t know how anybody could argue otherwise with a straight face.*

Because in some places lower levels of police are enough? The social make up means they don't have as high levels of crime?

London has something like 15% of all the people in the country in it. Yes fewer police will be felt there.

But right, ditch Sadiq, Zac Goldsmith would have sorted this by now...

If it's 25mg infrequently that's probably why you haven't been offered monitoring but because it's 2nd gen it's advisable to baseline ECG and blood glucose (random blood glucose), lipids, TFT, LFT and weight then yearly after that x

A friend of mine who did a lot of coke back in the day had a kit from a website called something like "cheeky one". It was a CD case, but when you opened it, it contained a small mirror, short silver straw, and small sharp razor blade.

I always wondered who the hell ordered them - surely it would lead the police straight to someone who was in possession of coke...! Or maybe they just don't care about someone with the odd gram.

Because in some places lower levels of police are enough? The social make up means they don't have as high levels of crime?

London has something like 15% of all the people in the country in it. Yes fewer police will be felt there.

sigh. It doesn’t work like that though does it? Maths doesn’t work like that. If funding is cut by 20% across the board it’s cut by 20%. London won’t be proportionally cut more than anywhere else. The make up of London will remain static just as the make up of Leeds and Devon will remain static. So if a drop in funding causes a rise in crime it would cause an equal rise in crime in Leeds or Devon as they have still had proportionate cuts but that hasn’t happened. Even in higher crime areas like Greater Manchester or Birmingham there has not been a mirrored rise in serious and violent crime to the extent London has seen.

This is something unique to London and clearly not caused by national policy as it’s not happening elsewhere.

This is something unique to London and clearly not caused by national policy as it’s not happening elsewhere.

It's the influx of crystal meth. It's relatively new in the uk and has just spread from the London gay scene into the general London population.

Social housing has improved in London but if you look at the simple facts

Their parents often earn approx £20k working in long hour jobs
People are stretched - even if the estate is nicer
You and they are surrounded by people with money and the image of money - especially in London - the whole made in Chelsea /towie is not the norm but appears to be

How can you get £120 trainers when that’s what your Mum spends on her weekly rent (ish)

Agree with the comments about poverty, drugs, social media, the glam of the Insta generation etc

Saw a veteran ex gang member talking on TV and those are the people to get through to these kids who are involved, as in they have been there and walked in their shoes.

Some teens are acting like they are in their own Game - someone disrespects them over the slightest thing, strays into their area and they need to save face. Mindless crap. Human life as indispensable as an animated figure being blown up. What shocks the most is how very young they are.

And oh yes, about the naice areas and the naice middle class kids with the income to fund the supply. Just talking to my 15 year old DD - she goes to a school full of very affluent kids and the older siblings of her friends regularly take Ket and Coke. I call them the En Suite brigade because they all have their own bathrooms and DD used to ask me why she didn't have one!

She has told me of one lad, whose photos are still plastered all over school for his sporting prowess and might have even been head boy, who regularly buys big bags of Ketamine and sells them to his friends for parties and festivals. The older brother of her boyfriend was sacked when coke was found at his workplace. Very personable, attractive boys from loving parents. It is RIFE.

Haha young people are not using cocaine or cannabis. They are using cheaper synthetic drugs and it really fucks them up. The charity work DH financially contribute to supports effective youth programs in high risk areas. These programs are vital to controlling crime. They also get the kids moving as the cheaper activities are sports. Playing basketball or baseball doesn't cost much. Neither does football.

sigh. It doesn’t work like that though does it? Maths doesn’t work like that. If funding is cut by 20% across the board it’s cut by 20%.

Sigh. Social structure, interactions and resulting crime don't really adhere to maths rules.

Sometimes there are just more people doing things they shouldn't in one place. Usually because of something like being, the capital of the country? Where more people buy drugs? Where more drugs are trafficked to? It's already been said that London is the drugs capital of the country. Which creates more gangs?

All of which means that with the same level of policing, proportionally, London has more issues than other large cities.

My DH sisters all live in London they were all brought up in care as was my DH DH moved away from London when he was in his teens but I absolutly believe that had he stayed in London he would have got involved in the gang culture and lure of easy money

His sister all have kids ( grown up now ) by these sort of wannabe gangster type guys who are in / out of prison for drug dealing and violence .all the fathers are BME (DH sister are white )

The kids (now grown up women and men ) have also had children with exactly the same type of guys who are in / out of prison dealing drugs and involved in gangs without fail .The daughters have said in the past that 'civilians " in normal jobs are boring and straight and they like this so called gangster lifestyle .its exciting .

The boys have all been in / out of prison young offenders since they were 16 ( now around 25 years old )

Even though there own fathers weren't around much their mothers dated similar guys ( supposedly bad men in gangs dealing drugs ) none of them have ever had a normal relationship with a guy that isn't involved in this gang culture

No doubt that the youngest generation will follow the exat same footsteps as there parents and gradparents

We need harsher punishment for criminals. Why not have the death penalty for those nasty fuckers who think they get to take someone else's life away. Electric chair. Scary as fuck. That's a proper deterrent.

Plus more money for NHS and police services as tax payer won't have to pay for murderers to be fed, clothed have activities and healthcare and TVs etc etc.

Obviously, people are sometimes accidentally killed or people are defending their family/home from invaders etc etc.

I'm talking about those really nasty cunts who just shoot/stab etc people for no good reason.

@Want2bSupermum I'm still in my late teens and know people (and in the have myself) who use drugs. All in and around East London and Essex/Greater London. Young people are smoking lots of weed and also doing coke, ecstasy etc etc

I've never in my life seen anyone do a 'synthetic drug.' Pretty sure only really stupid people ever went near them when they WERE legal. Other than that it's also homeless people cause they can only afford spice. Let's be honest, weed isn't cheap unless you are very friendly with a supplier of someone who grows/sells weed etc. For example if you were smoking everyday you'd probably want a score atleast every other day and that's like 60/80 quid a week.

You can expect to pay more for certain strains/hash etc and obviously coke/ket will be even more.

The war on drugs is working really well, isn't it?

Legalise absolutely everything, and sell it in state-run premises for the cost of production or, indeed, at a flat-rate quid a go. You might even experiment with giving it away.

People who take it will get clean, safe, properly made drugs which are far less harmful than street adulterated drugs. They will have access to a range of cessation services. They will not be pressurised to move onto more harmful substances by dealers with a commercial interest in addiction. The dealers will be put out of business.

It's not a panacea, for the same reasons as improved car security have made car crime different, and the Good Friday agreement didn't cause paramilitaries to all get jobs as accountants. But a large level of acquisitive crime will simply evaporate, as drug users will no longer need to use crime to fund their drug use.

The crimes that the more serious criminals (those that, to quote Biggie Smalls,not "Never get high on your own supply") commit won't be reduced in the same way because they will move onto other crimes. But those crimes won't have the same ambiguous social support, so will not enjoy the same de facto acceptability: there are a lot of people who are otherwise law-abiding invested in being able to buy drugs, but who are not similarly invested in supporting their local protection racket.

The collateral damage will be people who willingly take the newly legal drugs may get fucked up by them, although as the drugs will be of known quality and dosage far fewer as a proportion of users than currently. The question is whether fucked up users of legal drugs is more, or fewer, fucked up people than fucked up users of illegal drugs plus the casualties of the drugs war.

But it does seem that "eradicating drug-fuelled violence from London" isn't likely, so trying something else might be worth a go.

@CuboidalSlipshoddy pretty sure the only drug likely to get legalised any time soon is weed ? Not sure where you got the idea they're gonna start selling crack at your local corner shop?

And if you're suggesting it then why???? Have you ever seen people in drugs (especially harder drugs)? I don't think everyone being doped our their mind or even having hallucinations (meth/acid etc) is gonna help to reduce crime rate in our city.

Did someone say bring back the electric chair???

Not sure where you got the idea they're gonna start selling crack at your local corner shop

I don't think I said they were, did I?

I don't think everyone being doped our their mind or even having hallucinations (meth/acid etc) is gonna help to reduce crime rate in our city

No-one is forced to take anything. Alcohol is legal, and yet "everyone" is not drunk. Cigarettes are legal, and yet a diminishing band of diehards now smoke. Cannabis is de facto legal, and yet most people do not consume it. Why do you assume legalising drugs would increase usage? Do you think that they are so attractive that it is only (weakly enforced, and for possession essentially penalty-free) laws which stop people from being drawn into their snare?

The nasty person in me says BETTER DROWNED THAN DUFFERS IF NOT DUFFERS WON'T DROWN, but on this occasion I don't think it's even true; I don't believe criminalisation is the main thing stopping people from taking currently illegal drugs, and therefore I don't believe legalisation would substantially increase consumption. But even if I am wrong, widespread over-use of prescription opiates in the USA ("white smack") is probably preferable to 17 year olds being gunned down in the street at random.

That escalated quickly....