To wonder how people afford a 2nd child?

[ScruffleCake]

We have just found out we are going to have our 2nd baby but now going through finances I am wondering if we can even afford to keep the baby How do people afford to have another one? I thought we were both decent earners, my DP earns £24,500 and I earn £28,000. I know we live in the south-east where living costs are higher but I still see plenty of 2 children families around.

Our breakdown of our incoming & outgoings are below. The Bike loan will be up in 2 years (DP uses it to get to/from work) and the childcare is based on both babies going into care 3 days a week (assuming our parents will be okay looking after 2 babies on the other 2 days!).

Net income including both wages & child maintance: £3400
Outgoings breakdown:
Mortgage - £1,150
House Insurance - £20
Bike loan - £156
Internet - £39
TV Licence - £13
Bike insurance - £158
Energy (electric & gas) - £95
Water - £40
Mobile phones - £80
Food Shop - £350
Childcare - £1500
Fuel - £200
Total £3714

I suppose there are these free childcare places? But I can’t seem to find anywhere around me that offers these? And we will have 1.5 years till that starts when 2nd baby is born anyway. Not sure where we are meant to find this extra £314 from and we were hoping to be getting married in a few years but that can’t happen if we haven’t even any spare money for clothes etc let alone savings!

We’ll soon be having our first child, have a similar income to you and I’m also a bit worried. Although our outgoings are lower.

I think it’s understandable to want to have some disposable income but also be able to save too. I think lack of savings would worry me more than not having much left at the end of the month.

I’m just thinking the childcare situation will only be for a few years, then things will be back on track and our earnings will also increase by then :)

The new baby will be worth it if that’s what you want!

Working it out, it would actually only be 8 months of struggling as it would be bridging the gap between returning to work after mat leave and DS turning 3 and by then the bike loan will have been paid off too. I do also have a 10% bonus so I suppose that is an extra net £2240 a year too.

Oh wow that is quite a small gap to manage on a modest income. Would you just get SMP, and what do DPs work offer? If one of you can get more than statutory, that one should be taking more leave if possible.

Water is too high, gas and electric seem really high too. Phones are too expensive, and so is your internet. You can shop around and easily shave a tenner a month off of each. Your food shop seems very high too, I spend that on x5 and it’s mostly organic and we eat meat more than once a week. Assuming you’d be on maternity leave at first so those childcare fees might not be correct once you actually need to use it. Even if they are still that high, it won’t be for long. You’ll have a few tight years, but once they’re at school that will reduce down. When will your first be 4? The petrol would not be so high while you’re on maternity.

Also, for people saying shaving off money from bills here and there won’t make a difference - that’s just not true at all. If you can save a total of, let’s say, £120 a month by ringing around and switching providers, does that make no difference when the OP has absolutely no wiggle room financially? I think that’s a lot of money and could alleviate things significantly. I never understand why people are happy to linger on overpriced tarriffs for things, and say there’s no point switching, when it’s so unnecessary.

How long will you be on maternity? Sorry if it's already been mentioned but can you take DS out of the childminder while you're off to save money then put them both in nursery (might offer a sibling discount too maybe) that offers the free hours. Or would it save more if your DH takes more of the leave while you got back as you're the higher earner? It's the term after the child turns three just in case you weren't aware i.e. if DC is born in April the free hours won't start till September but should then be 30 hours as you're both working. I work just a few hours on the weekend so it's not too tiring but brings in extra. Maybe just till the free hours kick in that could be an option for one or both of you.

I think sadly you will find the free childcare won't start till your child is 3, the free childcare for 2 yr olds tends to be for low income/ people earning certain benefits- plus not all nursery's can actually afford to offer the free hours as the government doesn't give them enough to cover costs.
Could you save money on the bike insurance? It sounds a lot?
Do your food shop somewhere cheaper?
Good luck! X

You said your dp works shifts, could he do a flexible working request for fixed shifts that mean you only need half a days childcare, basically cut your childcare bill in half?

Sorry I thought the 1500 was your current childcare costs, but it is for two, that makes more sense.

The 15 hours free also doesn’t start until the term after they turn 3.

So if your child turns 3 just after the cut off, you could have several weeks before they qualify.

For example, a May born child wouldn’t qualify until Septembe.

Just wanted to agree with other posters that if my DH had a -toy- bike that was costing us that much as a couple I would not be impressed. 2 vehicles are a luxury and we have coped on one vehicle for a long time now. Dh gets a bus or a lift to work.

Your mobiles are far higher than average and your mortgage is very high but I think you have said there is nothing you can do about these for a while.

We cope by shopping at Aldi and have lots of tinned and frozen veg/fruit and alternatives to meat as I know that's what builds up the cost of food.

How small is your oldest child? Are you still buying formula? After one he/she can have cows milk. Could you plan to Breast feed the new one thus saving that cost at least for the first few months.

It sounds to me like DP going part time or changing his hours would offer a solution too. You say he works shifts could he request some weekends and a fixed weekday off so that you have unpaid childcare for 3 days a week? He could plan to do that just for a year or two so it doesn't impact too negatively on family time.

You are £200 a month short. If you get rid of the bike you will have an extra £200 a month. It seems quite a simple solution to me ...

If DP won't get rid of the bike he needs to earn more to make up the shortfall.

I can't see any advantages in you marrying this man until he is prepared to grow up a bit. Don't go part time or give up work as you need to protect your career.

We have a 3 year age gap, DS2 is a month old today and DS1 has just become eligible for the free hours so our childcare bill has just dropped. Before I went on maternity leave I was working part time and my mum helps us a lot with childcare which obviously reduces our bill further. We moved house last year and our mortgage is only £470 per month as we were able to stretch the term to the maximum.

We kept almost all the clothes and baby stuff from DS1 so haven’t had to buy much extra. I breastfeed which saves I think £10 a week (I realise it’s not possible for everyone). We get childcare vouchers and although our bill has reduced I’m still claiming the maximum because even when my wage drops to SMP my employer still provides them, I’m going to save them up for when they are needed.

All childcare providers should offer the 15 free hours, theoretically you should get 30 but unfortunately this isn’t possible for a lot of childminders and nurseries. Definitely worth looking around, you can stretch the hours across different providers if necessary.

With ft childcare costs factored in he doesn't need to find another job making £24,500 a year. After tax his income is about £18k. Childcare is about that working the same 5 days as you. If he can work on two days you don't work (ie over the weekend) childcare should fall to about £12k a year. His earnings can drop a bit to say £20k and his earnings after tax should be about £16k.

Shifting work patterns this way is the most effective way to afford working IMO.

Thank you all for your help.

Whilst I'm on mat leave we will be fine financially. Not worried about that bit. It's just the 8 months afterwards and now I've worked out it's only for 8 months I feel a lot calmer.

We will start shopping at Lidl rather than ASDA (we used to shop there before but stopped because I liked having food delivered and the fruit and veg was always mouldy On the shelves, but I guess ill just buy frozen)

We will certainly look at changing bills round. Shall do that tomorrow at work!

Phones we will change when contract ends

Mortgage we are stuck with as only just bought!

I asked DP about the bike and he said he will do extra shifts where possible to make up short fall to keep the bike.

It's only for 8 months until DS turns 3 and bike loan ends and then we will be fine (I hope)

Have you seriously asked your parents to stop working one day per week to have your kids?! When they still have kids at home to support and earn less than you?!

It’s good your DP has agreed to get extra shifts to make up the shortfall. I do think you need to clarify what your parents will be able to do though.

Good for you! Good luck and enjoy your time off if you can! And congratulations. I hope all goes well with the baby

that is just because DP is an idiot and has a sports bike
he does usually cycle, that's what kinda silly about him having the motorbike too.
This is obviously a massive part of your problem.

I asked DP about the bike and he said he will do extra shifts where possible to make up short fall to keep the bike
He really needs to get rid of the bike if it’s a luxury and use extra shift money for your DC / to stop you being on such a tight budget.
As hard as it is, that’s just life with young DC when you live in the SE. It seems really selfish of him wanting the bike when you can’t really afford it.

Living in a different part of the country is obviously far cheaper (although I understand why you don’t want to move).

Other people cope by working opposite/different shifts to share childcare between them. Could DP change his job to work evenings/on your days off?

Mortgage - £1,150 - this is no help now but hopefully once your fixed rate comes up for renewal you can reduce this. When I first bought a house there was a massive difference between interest rates for 5% and 10% deposit. Hopefully when you come to renew you should have more equity
House Insurance - £20. This looks expensive. I pay £150 per year for an all signing and dancing policy and got £70 cash back through a cashback site
Bike loan - £156 - I agree with you post that DP should try to pick up extra shifts to cover this
Internet - £39 - This is expensive. Can you change supplier and reduce this (also check out cashback websites)
TV Licence - £13
Bike insurance - £158. When this comes up for renewal can DP get this reduced by changing insurer. It is often cheaper to pay yearly rather than monthly. Also try to utilise cashback websites
Energy (electric & gas) - £95. Ring supplier and get usage figures then put these into uswitch website to see if you can get a cheaper supplier.
Water - £40. Are you rated or metered?
Mobile phones - £80. When your contracts expire change to SIM only tariff (£10/£15 per month each)

Is there any way DP could change his shifts so that he has time off during the week (thus saving childcare costs) and works during the weekend during the 8 months before the 30 hours kicks in?

I think your DP needs to take on extra shifts where he can irrespective of the bike tbh. Even taking into account the potential savings on phones, shopping and so on that posters have suggested you'll only just be getting by and bear in mind your calculations take into account your parents contribution of 2 days childcare per week. Are you 100% certain that will carry on until dc2 reaches 3?

It's very generous of them to give up a days paid work to help you two but I can't help wondering if they expected that to end when dc1 turned 3. Now it seems to be assumed they'll provide childcare for the next 3.5 years. You say they earn less than you so they wouldn't be completely unreasonable to wonder why they are making sacrifices to help you and DP afford another child and of course DPs toy . What's the plan if they aren't willing to carry on the current situation until dc2 goes to nursery? Or if they can't? They could in the future find that they can no longer afford to take that financial hit and need to work full time!

Sorry I havent read through all previous posts but my childcare is half of what you have budgeted. That's for 2 children (1 and 3) doing 3 days a week at Nursery
I get the free 15 hours as my son is 3 (as per all kids in the UK provided the Nursery is approved) and I use the Government tax free scheme that is replacing childcare vouchers. That's 20% off. Plus I get 10% off sons bill as a sibling discount. Result is £750 a month (£46 per day).

Depending on where you are could your DH do the SIA course for door work & security.
It's often mainly night work but it can be pretty flexible especially for weekends although long hours 8-10 hrs shifts
My son did his while studying and regularly earned £250 -£300 for working thur fri sat nights

Well it's the childcare that makes the difference. A lot of women don't have to factor that in for a second because they're a SAHM or their family provide free childcare or they work shifts around their partner's job and so on... when you take away the childcare issue it suddenly isn't such a huge financial impact to have a second child.

I moved up north just to have my first. I don’t know how people in the SE do it, it’s a fucking national scandal a lot of people can’t afford to have children.