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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how people afford a 2nd child?

191 replies

ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 12:48

We have just found out we are going to have our 2nd baby but now going through finances I am wondering if we can even afford to keep the baby Sad How do people afford to have another one? I thought we were both decent earners, my DP earns £24,500 and I earn £28,000. I know we live in the south-east where living costs are higher but I still see plenty of 2 children families around.

Our breakdown of our incoming & outgoings are below. The Bike loan will be up in 2 years (DP uses it to get to/from work) and the childcare is based on both babies going into care 3 days a week (assuming our parents will be okay looking after 2 babies on the other 2 days!).

Net income including both wages & child maintance: £3400
Outgoings breakdown:
Mortgage - £1,150
House Insurance - £20
Bike loan - £156
Internet - £39
TV Licence - £13
Bike insurance - £158
Energy (electric & gas) - £95
Water - £40
Mobile phones - £80
Food Shop - £350
Childcare - £1500
Fuel - £200
Total £3714

I suppose there are these free childcare places? But I can’t seem to find anywhere around me that offers these? And we will have 1.5 years till that starts when 2nd baby is born anyway. Not sure where we are meant to find this extra £314 from and we were hoping to be getting married in a few years but that can’t happen if we haven’t even any spare money for clothes etc let alone savings!

OP posts:
AnotherOriginalUsername · 04/04/2018 13:18

Sell the bike, use the money to pay off the rest of the loan and then what's left to get a cheaper (to purchase and insure) bike

Pinkvoid · 04/04/2018 13:18

I’m guessing both phones are contract? Whenever your contracts are up, keep the phones and go for a sim only deal. I did this and it’s one of the best things I ever did financially. Its saved me so much. There really is no need to always have the newest model.

Your DP’s bike costs A LOT... it’s not just the actual loan but the insurance and fuel it costs too. That is honestly astonishing. I suppose he has the loan now so there’s not really much that can be done about that... but I would seriously suggest dropping using it so there’s not the fuel or insurance to consider. Isn’t public transport an option for him to get to work? Or a bicycle? There has to be a cheaper way than that surely...

Childcare wise, you will be on maternity leave for a while surely so childcare won’t be an issue for at least a few months then the 30 free hours should kick in eventually for the first DC. Not sure as I’m fortunate enough never to have had childcare costs.

I’d say your food shop is average, especially considering formula and I assume nappies too. You could try to bring that down slightly but I’d say it is about right imo.

Your gas and electric sounds pretty high, have you used comparison websites to make sure you’re getting the best deals?

Other than that, all I can say is that I am expecting fourth DC with similar incomes. I don’t have the childcare issue and also live in the North so I suppose that helps... but we don’t suffer too severely. I definitely wouldn’t consider an abortion purely because of finances, you will find a way to get by.

BarbaraofSevillle · 04/04/2018 13:19

A motorbike that costs that much is a luxury not basic transport. How far does he live from work and is it a very fast or expensive bike? What is the alternative way to get to work without the bike.

DP had a 'big bike' whatever that means and his insurance was about £200 per year. Where is the bike kept? Would the insurance be cheaper if he got a motorbike shed for it?

And sorry, but £40 pm for a mobile phone is expensive. You do not need and cannot afford a new high end phone every couple of years.

You could probably shave a bit off the internet too. You must never pay full price and always be on a deal, or else you're throwing money away.

We've just signed up with BT for fibrebroad band, not the basic level, but one step up, on a deal that is discounted and pays cashback, so works out about £21 pm incl line rental for 18 months. At the end of that time, I'll either renegotiate with BT or move somewhere else.

Does the income you've stated include the little bit extra CB you'll get when baby No 2 arrives? Have you fully investigated all the tax free childcare/childcare vouchers you are entitled to?

AntiHop · 04/04/2018 13:19

Op the 30 free hours only apply after your child turns 3. It means the term after your child turns 3, you can claim 30 hours for the childcare term time only. Some childcare providers have chosen not to offer it. Some providers are expecting a top up payment from parents, but many aren't. Any hours over 30 you have to pay for full cost,plus full cost during the holidays.

You can also claim child care vouchers OR tax free childcare.

I think getting a mortgage instead of renting was a sensible choice. Can you or dp do compressed hours to minimise childcare?

I've only got 1 child as we live in London and just can't afford another. We were going to reconsider if we'd try for another after the 30 hours kicked in, but we're in the middle of moving house so postponed the decision for now. It really sucks that due to high housing costs, I can't just have another child. It's my choice to live in London but it's my home and I don't want to move away.

When you're on mat leave you could take your older child out of childcare to save money.

Good luck Flowers

juneau · 04/04/2018 13:19

We used childcare vouchers for nursery too, which saved a bit. I don't know if all employers offer them, but it's worth asking your HR dept if you haven't done so. They come out of pre-tax income, so can save you quite a bit over the course of your DC's pre-school education. That and the free hours should really help you to make ends meet when DC2 arrives.

BarbaraofSevillle · 04/04/2018 13:20

If his motorbike fuel is only £10 a month, he must be in walking distance to work surely?

Buglife · 04/04/2018 13:20

Every child is eligible for 15 free hours in any ofsted registered setting (childminder, nursery or pre school) from the age of 3. It is only term time school hours though. 30 hours of both parents are working. It’s not an individual nursery thing, they just get money from the government for the eligible children (although some private nurseries will require top up money from you as the govt pays the mininimum). The nursery may just say on the website “funded hours available” etc. Pre school isn’t very helpful as childcare as it’s 9-3 School hours.

Plsadvise · 04/04/2018 13:21

If it was me I would probably try and live on less for the next few months and try and save a bit of a wodge of cash, and use that to clear the bike loan early plus put a bit away for spends when baby is here.

orangesmartieseggs · 04/04/2018 13:22

If the loan is on the money, I would consider selling the bike, paying off the loan and buying a cheap bike to get around. That's a huge amount of money going towards something that's only being used for £10 worth of journeys a month!

Original poster
ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 13:25

I need to restate, as I have previously but appears to keep being missed, the bike insurance was a typo, its £58 a month not £158. Also the fuel is my fuel for the car (which I only use for work and childcare running about).

Plsadvise yeah that is what we are doing, putting all house renovations on hold - I'm sure no one cares if we live in a dated house as long as its sound!

Buglife ahhhh! thank you! I guess I shall have to get on a nursery waiting list then

OP posts:
MagicAlwaysLeadsToTrouble · 04/04/2018 13:26

Maybe look at your DP stopping Work for a bit then?

No childcare cost and no bike costs that way.

It doesn’t have to be forever, just for these super expensive childcare years.

Original poster
ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 13:26

orangesmartieseggs If we sold the bike we wouldn't pay of the loan (as there would be interest) and we would have no money to buy a new one either (which was why we needed a loan in first place)

OP posts:
Figgygal · 04/04/2018 13:29

We afforded it by having ds1 starting school so big age gap which isn't going to help you. Family doing childcare seems to make a big difference to most people can you get more help from GP's?

In terms of finding a provider of the funded hours would come down to you phoning round nurseries and childminders in your area as a pp has said due to the underfunding of the hours some don't offer it. You wont get it for your existing child at 2 on your incomes it will be from 3.

since going back to work after DC2 we are using tax free childcare not childcare vouchers and are saving more.

Original poster
ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 13:29

MagicAlwaysLeadsToTrouble We would still be short by £200 if DP quit his job, not that he would anyway as he has already stated he wouldn't be prepared to do that

OP posts:
CurlyRover · 04/04/2018 13:30

£58 a month is still a lot of money for bike insurance OP. In my previous biking days my insurance cost £140 per year! Can't he downgrade to a cheaper bike?

KenAdams · 04/04/2018 13:30

To me, living in the SE is a luxury. I couldn't afford it. It's not like you're earning megabucks to justify living there. You'd be able to get similar salaries in a cheaper area. That's how we afford things.

wantmorenow · 04/04/2018 13:31

Can't see council tax on your list? That;s usually a big bill. Sad

orangesmartieseggs · 04/04/2018 13:31

Can your parents do childcare more than the two days a week they're already doing? Or is there an option for one of you to work weekends for a few years so you save on childcare costs?

CurlyRover · 04/04/2018 13:31

Sorry, cross-post about the bike

Original poster
ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 13:32

Figgygal they have already both given up 1 day each to look after DS, cant expect them to lose out even more pay to look after our kids. Oh wait, a pp just said all providers do free places but now you're saying that they don't? I am so confused! I knew it would be from 3 though

OP posts:
BarbaraofSevillle · 04/04/2018 13:32

If it's a normal bank loan, you would save interest by paying off early.

Ring them and ask for an early settlement figure. It's against the law for them to charge interest to the end of the loan period if you pay a loan off early.

Original poster
ScruffleCake · 04/04/2018 13:34

KenAdams But how would I be able to move away from our parents and family? Firstly they wouldn't be able to look after the kids anymore so childcare would go up in price even further! And also, I suffer from depression & anxiety with my family being my support network - I fear things would drastically go downhill if we moved. Also we cant afford to move as just moved recently so have 0 savings.

OP posts:
peacheachpearplum · 04/04/2018 13:34

His bike is a big expense if he really needs a bike to get to work then can you look at a cheaper one with cheaper insurance? The mobiles are expensive as well (I have a giffgaff goody bag and you can get them from £5 a month) you can live without internet. I know losing those things would all be a pain but if you want the baby what else can you do. If he works shifts can he do any of the child care, I know it is awkward when it isn't a set day but if the parents could be flexible maybe?

The big thing is that it isn't forever so you just get through it the best you can.

Have you counted the extra child benefit? Allowed for the tax allowance going up this month.

Could you have a lodger?

It can be really hard when they are this age.

PeanutButterSquash · 04/04/2018 13:34

In general, other people earn more or have lower cost. That's all there is.
More specifically..
EE offers unlimited internet for £20 a month. Its not super fast but is unlimited and I can face time and Skype using it. See if you can get that/something similar?
Meal plan and shop for exactly what you need. Use own brands, basic jam sandwiches for work. getting down to £300 or less shouldn't be too difficult.
Get rid of your TV and save the £13 a month as well as electricity.
Do comparisons for ALL insurance. May Or may not save anything but worth a shot.
Cut down your phone bill. If its not on contract have a good look online. At the moment I have 1000 mins, 6gb of data and unlimited texts for £13 a month (EE). Perfrctly sufficient for most people particularly If you have internet at home.
Start using electricity saving methods (lots of good ones online) and compare these online. Almost 100 a month for a small 3 bed is a bit much, even for PAYG!

Make sure you get what you're entitled to - online calculators can be iffy. Phone and talk to someone at the DWP/tax credits asap.

Want2bSupermum · 04/04/2018 13:35

You have a DP problem. The bike is something you can't really afford. Also as he earns less he should look at working PT so your earnings decrease so you qualify for assistance. Alternatively he should look to stop working and get qualified while out of work so he earns more when rentering.