78 pensioner arrested for fatally stabbing burglar in his own home

[SShaming]

2 burglars break into a 78 year old man’s home armed with screwdriver.

Forces owner into the kitchen whilst one of them goes upstairs.

A fight ensues, leaving pensioner with injuries to his arm and burglary is fatally stabbed. Perhaps with his own screwdriver although this is TBC.

Police arrest pensioner.

On what planet is this right?

Misrepresenting the views of others might also be a useful basis for disqualification from jury duty, Jacques.

He is a killer. That simply isn't in question. If you kill someone you should be charged and undergo a legal trial. That's the law of the land

There is no criminal offence of “killing”, it would be murder or manslaughter and not every instance of someone “killing” someone else amounts to one of these offences.

CPS Guidelines on Murder
Murder

Subject to three exceptions (see Voluntary Manslaughter below) the crime of murder is committed, where a person:
•of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
•unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
•any reasonable creature (human being);
•in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
•under the Queen's Peace;
•with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

No premeditation mentioned.

If the killing is determined to be justifiable self defence then it is a complete defence to a murder charge.

Sentencing guidelines
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/sentencing-mandatory-life-sentences-murder-cases
Note - Premeditation is potentially aggravating
Lack of Premeditation is potentially mitigating
So premeditation is relevant to the length of sentence.

A jury is a panel of peers, it represents a cross section of society. We are all entitled to our views, even the ones you don't like. The idea of an ordinary person not being worthy of it because of their views isn't right.

I realise you want to to let us see how woke you are, but it only shows ignorance and disrespect for the law system and for society.

I have no idea what "woke" means - clearly not as down with the kids as you.

But my views have nothing to do with not thinking an "ordinary person" isn't "worthy" of being on a jury.

It had everything to do with witnessing said poster call everyone who wasn't wringing their hands at the idea of the case being investigated and the home owner arrested a "pro burglar".

It was the poster I was addressing who has been calling everyone who didn't agree with her a "pro burglar".

“Misrepresenting the views of others might also be a useful basis for disqualification from jury duty, ”

One hopes you would therefore disqualify yourself should you ever be called, Whales!

Misrepresenting the views of others might also be a useful basis for disqualification from jury duty, Jacques.

Yup. That's exactly what you were doing. Got it one.

Misrepresenting the views of others might also be a useful basis for disqualification from jury duty, Jacques.

You don’t seem to be erudite enough to work out that people suggesting that the 78-year old be subject to the correct legal process and the assertion that 78 might not be frail doesn’t equal “whoop I love a good burglar me”

You can be 'terrified at the prospect' of something, by the way, without believing that the 'something' in question should be prevented from happening.

In fact, that's often a necessary trick of double-think when considering our legal system (not to mention our political system...)

All his working life this man worked hard and now looks after his wife in their last years together only to have their life destroyed by this scum of the earth,he has now been released and back at his home according to the news.
I hope his wife is not too traumatised and that they are both being taken care of by the relevant care services.

He has dementia, according to the Daily Mail.

Apologies, his wife has dementia, not him.

The problem is that a reasonable person would know that when stabbing someone you are likely to kill them or cause grievous bodily harm. Therefore he would have to be arrested on suspicion of murder.

But if he was acting in self-defence, ie if the burglar was attacking him and he stabbed him in the course of trying to save his own life then the action is justified. The police have to be able to investigate to find out the truth.

Surely it makes sense to arrest someone at the beginning of the investigation so evidence can’t be tampered with, false accounts of what happened can not be collaborated no matter how straight forward the incident appears to be

What if it was a fatal road accident there would be no point arresting the person the next day or a few days after as you would not get an accurate reading for alcohol or some drugs

It appears some on here are being deliberately obtuse to the point they are making themselves look foolish

True - suspicion of murder - fair enough. But what is making people angry is the lack of understanding of what it is really like to be attacked in your home, in your pyjamas, by two men, with a weapon.

It is also well understood that catching and sentencing of these criminals does not in any way reflect the damage the crime inflicts on those it happens to.

No-one comes to rescue you, no-one will try to put things right. As I said, I found a man in my baby's bedroom with a knife. If he hadn't run - what might I have done?? As far as I know he is still doing that as he was never even looked for.

*chardonnay
*
“A jury is a panel of peers. It represents a cross section of society”

Well, which one is it then? 😉

Equals.

Aren’t we all?

Not sure if this has been said already the man has now been given bail so will be at home while Police investigate further.

True - suspicion of murder - fair enough. But what is making people angry is the lack of understanding of what it is really like to be attacked in your home, in your pyjamas, by two men, with a weapon.

But who is saying that they're unsympathetic to him?

I have every sympathy for him. I just think due process has to be followed to establish the facts.

I felt sorry for Tony Martin too. But I also felt for the boy he killed. It was ruled not to be self-defence, but easy to understand why TM felt so threatened in the circumstances.

Or are you not happy for someone with opinions different to yours to sit and on
one?
Are they a lesser person?

Have the Fail picked this hot Mumsnet potato up yet?

I hope he is released without charge. I cannot imagine how hideously terrifying that episode must have been and nor do I want to. I don’t suppose he was mentally rehearsing stabbing someone to death that he met in the street or became obsessed with. Oh no he wasn’t.
I can see the legalities being endlessly and hotly debated but to me once it could be established his home was invaded by a pair of marauding thugs equipped with items that are easily made lethal then I kind of think fuck them.

I’d rather be reading that one of those bits of pond scum came a cropper than either of those poor people just minding their own business.

Or are you not happy for someone with opinions different to yours to sit and on one?

I wouldn't be happy for someone who calls everyone who thinks that due process should be followed a "pro burglar" or an "apologist" to sit on a jury, no.

It would sure make for a challenging experience if you were a fellow member of the same jury.

Or are you not happy for someone with opinions different to yours to sit and on
one?

Understanding how the law works and must be applied isn’t an opinion.

Contrary to previous posts, nobody is sympathetic to the “burglars” or unsympathetic to the 78-year old. Rather that due processes can’t be ignored because he’s “frail” or has a wife with dementia. THAT’S what is eye-opening, that there are actually people suggesting it’s ridiculous he was arrested

Have the Fail picked this hot Mumsnet potato up yet?

I suspect they'll have their hands full with the "you owe us £300 for housesitting our home whilst we were on holiday" thread.

BertrandRussell

One hopes you would therefore disqualify yourself should you ever be called, Whales!

No problem - make sure you reveal your habit of smearing unconvicted suspects as murderers too, though!

I am sympathetic to him. He may have been justified in what he did. What I am struggling with is posters who don't seem to accept that arresting him on suspicion of murder was necessary. It is vital to him that the case is investigated properly, evidence secured and he has access to legal representation. All of that happens when you are arrested. The police can't assume self defence or take an argument of self defence at face value and shut the case down or not investigate. They have to investigate to establish if his version of events appear to be borne out by the evidence.