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Original poster

78 pensioner arrested for fatally stabbing burglar in his own home

999 replies

SShaming · 04/04/2018 12:20

2 burglars break into a 78 year old man’s home armed with screwdriver.

Forces owner into the kitchen whilst one of them goes upstairs.

A fight ensues, leaving pensioner with injuries to his arm and burglary is fatally stabbed. Perhaps with his own screwdriver although this is TBC.

Police arrest pensioner.

On what planet is this right?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Wonkydonky1 · 04/04/2018 16:10

Being arrested doesn't mean he will
Be charged with anything let alone convicted. Even a very good case of self defence needs to be investigated to ensure that the circumstances were reasonable and not out of proportion.
If it is proven reasonable there will be no further action taken. If unreasonable they will be charged to court. Unfortunately some peoples views of self defence etc don't actually fall with in the law and their actions are actually criminal.

Under the pensioners circumstances, providing it is as simple as it has been described in op there will probably be no further action taken at some point.

MotheringMilly · 04/04/2018 16:14

He has to be arrested. Even if he is charged no jury will find him guilty. Regardless, extremely stressful.

Poor guy.

bingoLounge · 04/04/2018 16:14

@Aeroflotgirl

"If your a burglar, being killed is an occupational hazard I am afraid"

Our u un American?

Aeroflotgirl · 04/04/2018 16:17

No I am not bingo but homeowners might defend themselves, and a burglar might be harmed.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/04/2018 16:18

Nicknacky I was jocking doh, no obviously I would not.

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 16:19

Even if he is charged no jury will find him guilty.

I guess it makes me a little out of touch that I'd rather the jury did their duty ? This isn't Mississippi.

Yet.

frankchickens · 04/04/2018 16:25

I guess it makes me a little out of touch that I'd rather the jury did their duty

Not at all - I agree.

In fact despite all the frothing at the time from people like the OP, it was precisely this than ensured we found the facts (and the jury convicted) in the Tony Martin case, despite many people at the time saying Tony Martin should be crowned King immediately.

bingoLounge · 04/04/2018 16:28

@aeroflotgirl

"homeowners might defend themselves, and a burglar might be harmed."

And they might go to jail for defending themselves unreasonably and I'm glad that this is the case.

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 16:29

despite many people at the time saying Tony Martin should be crowned King immediately.

The Express, The Sun, The Mail, and The Telegraph, you mean ....

Gottagetmoving · 04/04/2018 16:29

As sad as this situation is...this thread has really made me laugh because some of the comments are so bloody ridiculous!
I never knew so many people could be so dim.
Even when others have explained that the law requires the man he arrested at this point and why, we still have people going mad about that and then accusing those who do have the common sense and logic of being bleeding heart lefties or of defending the burglars!
You couldn't make this up!
The funniest was someone saying 78 isn't old because her ex would have 25 year old twins when he is that age! WTAF? Grin

ilovesooty · 04/04/2018 16:31

The jury's "duty" is to reach a verdict based on reasonable doubt.

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 16:34

The jury's "duty" is to reach a verdict based on reasonable doubt.

With the allowance for jury nullification.

SaucyJane · 04/04/2018 16:36

Gotta - that made me laugh too. I think it's the most irrelevant comment I've ever seen on here!!

frankchickens · 04/04/2018 16:37

Gottagetmoving True - this is the thread that just keeps on giving.

ClaryFray · 04/04/2018 16:42

Maybe he'll get manslaughter. I doubt he meant to kill him. But murders, murder. It's illegal regardless of circumstances, if we had it any other way we'd have people giving whatever reason they felt like.

I hope he doesn't get charged. But, the police are following the law.

Buster72 · 04/04/2018 16:42

DNA is not held if you are not charged

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 16:46

Maybe he'll get manslaughter. I doubt he meant to kill him.

But that implies an underlying illegal intent to harm ....

Lizzie48 · 04/04/2018 16:47

A 78 year old isn't necessarily frail. My DM is that age and she spends 3 months every year in Africa on a Christian charity project. So she's definitely not frail though she's starting to show her age.

But regardless of this man's age, it sounds like a clear case of self-defence, which the Tony Martin case was not, as he shot the intruder in the back as he was running away.

DGRossetti · 04/04/2018 16:49

DNA is not held if you are not charged

Not automatically. From

www.gov.uk/government/publications/protection-of-freedoms-act-2012-dna-and-fingerprint-provisions/protection-of-freedoms-act-2012-how-dna-and-fingerprint-evidence-is-protected-in-law

3 years if granted by the Biometrics Commissioner plus a 2 year extension if granted by a District Judge (or indefinite if the individual has a previous conviction for a recordable offence which is not excluded)

KatoPotato · 04/04/2018 16:50

I was extremely fortunate to be trained by Mark Dawes, an expert witness in Reasonable Force. This blog post explains a lot:

www.markdawes.com/news-1/understanding-reasonable-force

Rene Barclay, the CPS's director of complex casework, said:

"A person is entitled to use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purpose of self-defence, the defence of another, the defence of property, or the prevention of crime.”

"The Crown Prosecution Service has continually and repeatedly emphasised that people can use reasonable force to repel intruders. This resulted in no charges being brought against Lancashire shopkeeper Tony Singh after he stabbed to death a man who was trying to rob him.

Liam Kilroe, who was attempting to rob Mr. Singh, was fatally stabbed with his own knife during the struggle in which Mr. Singh, who was also stabbed several times, was defending himself.

The CPS said that in making its decision it was "determined" to ensure that those who used reasonable force to defend themselves were given the "full protection of the law".

Kursk · 04/04/2018 16:53

The crime type should not matter, Rape, burglaries, assault. The victim should be free to use force to stop the threat against them and there family.

In my eyes the guy was appropriately defending his home. I would have done the same thing as the police can do anything, they won’t get there in time.

If someone is committing a crime like that they should expect to be on the receiving end of violence.

ikeepaforkinmypurse · 04/04/2018 16:54

And they might go to jail for defending themselves unreasonably and I'm glad that this is the case.

why? Are you a burglar in your spare time? Having to argue what constitute "reason" in such extreme situations is not right.

Nicknacky · 04/04/2018 16:54

kursk Even though you don’t know the full story yet?

Lizzie48 · 04/04/2018 16:56

As I understand it, this man was threatened with a screwdriver in the kitchen. If the burglar was killed with that screwdriver, then that would be self-defence. If the burglar was leaving and the man attacked him with a kitchen knife, that would be entirely different.

In this country, it needs to be reasonable force. Not like in the US, where you're allowed to shoot an intruder.