How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

lady actually I’m brilliant with money, but if you know a way of reducing the amount my train costs to work or negotiate my council tax down, or can get me childcare for less than the going rate I’d be interested to hear it.

Why is mumsnet always a massive competition as to who is the most paupers?

If you're in genuine poverty and are surviving on 48p and a tin of beans every month, clearly this thread doesn't apply to you?

Some people (like the OP) grow up with a standard of living and £350 really isn't a lot to them.

Perhaps rather than looking at your fixed expenses you should look at your variable ones to cut back? Radical idea i know.

It’s only for the short term Op. grit your teeth until they get to school.

But I never yet heard of anyone regretting their baby even if it did make things temporarily difficult

That old chestnut! Yes. People sometimes regret their children. The reason you don't hear it said much is because it's such a taboo to admit. But if you're in a position where others confide in you, it's surprisingly common. People on this board occasionally acknowledge they feel that way.

I'm picking you up on this because the more what you say is bandied about, the shitter the person who does feel that way feels reading your words and thinking they're alone.

I get it btw, OP. £350 wouldn't be bad for someone on their own but between four humans doesn't go far without a lot of tracking and being careful with your spending.

Currently we're on about a combined of around £64k with no kids and this thread has been really useful for me in considering the costs of having kids, which we're hoping for within the next year or two. Thanks.

lady which variable expenses?

OP- you are like me I think. If you want another child then yes you can afford it but of course it will make you less well off financially. When the children are grown up it will be harder to help them out. We have roughly £4800 take home pay and Little mortgage. We can afford another child, I just don't feel ready at the moment and the responsibility of another person makes me feel stressed.

But just seen that the £750 is due to childcare costs which wouldn't be forever which makes it less painful. Do you have any savings you can access?

Our household income is similar to yours. We’ve taken the plunge and decided to have a second child (I’m pregnant at the moment) but it will be difficult.

Full time childcare for two in nursery would be £2,677/month where we live. That is more than one of our salaries so makes no sense to pay out! Not to mention my travel costs would be another £500 on top of that/month. I also don’t have a very good maternity package at the moment so it’s not like we can spend my maternity leave saving. It’s a little beter than basic so SMP but not much.

Luckily we having managed to buy somewhere so we are moving from a rental to an owned house which will be £350/month cheaper. Our council tax will also be about £100/month cheaper. My plan is to try and build up some contracting work while I’m on maternity leave so I can wait until my older child gets his free nursery hours before going back.

I’ve also spent the last month or so buying my older child’s clothes for next winter in the sale so it’s one les thing to worry about at the time.

All the nastiness on here just reeks of jealousy!

I have about £350 a month disposable income left over after rent, bills, savings etc and I struggle some months. And that's just for me.

If I had a family, I'd be panicking a bit too!!

You are likely to find tax free childcare to be much more helpful to you than the voucher system. That should add a bit to the disposable income. Also make sure you put your child down for the 15 and 30 free hours when they turn 3 as soon as possible, as there are sometimes waiting lists. Keep working as late into the pregnancy as you can, thus maximising the amount of time you will have on paid leave whilst not incurring childcare costs for the baby.

But otherwise, yanno, London. Everything is ridic. It sounds like your household income is over twice ours and compared to you I've got loads of money.

Yesterday: parking £2.60, extra milk £1.70. Today: parking £2.60, coffee £2.10, shampoo £2.20. I need some foundation tomorrow £13 No7. That £350 won't last long if you add in a couple of prescriptions, a £10 birthday present, two new tyres at £450, etc.

Unless you post (or have posted) your monthly expenditure I’m not sure anyone can tell you why you have so “little”

If you’re serious, then try living off that amount now and put the current surplus into savings. People tend to live within their means pretty well. You just adjust accordingly. Like I’ve gone from spending £2+ a coffee, to either taking one from home or using Waitrose’s free coffee with a purchase. Little things like that make a big difference over time. Quite often people fall into spending habits that unless you have a compelling reason are hard to break.

For a forum that is supposed to be about women supporting women, I really and truly struggle to understand why some people are on here – just to piss all over other people’s problems and try and minimize them like they’re no big deal. Everything is relative and green is not a good colour on anyone. I sympathize completely OP!

have my first ever Mumsnet biscuit!

All the nastiness on here just reeks of jealousy!
indeed
At least haters are not trying to disguise it.

It's always jealousy you lot start screeching about, the minute anyone highlights rich people pretending to be poor!
I'm not jealous, fgs (I have far more disposable income than OP will, thanks all the same!) I just have an actual grip on reality.
Some of you want to try it sometime.

Yesterday: parking £2.60, extra milk £1.70. Today: parking £2.60, coffee £2.10, shampoo £2.20. I need some foundation tomorrow £13 No7. That £350 won't last long if you add in a couple of prescriptions, a £10 birthday present, two new tyres at £450, etc.

But half of those expenses are optional.

You don't need to spend £13 on foundation, or buy a coffee while you're out (I assume the £2.10 was a takeaway from somewhere). And if you can't afford £450 on tyres, run a cheaper car. Mine are around £60 each - a whole new wheel for mine after I hit a pothole last week cost £160, for example. You can buy shampoo for less than £2.20 if you have to.

How much is your childcare, season ticket and work related expenses like clothes, lunches, work related socialising, "easy" but expensive food because you work full time? Because sometimes you can be better off if one of you stays at home.

Of course you have to factor in how that would impact your career long term.

£350 is not a lot, especially if you don't have an emergency fund behind you.

Everything is relative and green is not a good colour on anyone.

Eh, who said anything about jealousy?

I think your maths is right but your thinking is wrong. Instead of thinking that it's staggering how little you have left after childcare, try thinking that you can afford childcare AND have money left over.
For many people the cost of childcare is so hard that there's no choice about being able to go out to work or have another child.You have enough money to be flexible about both of those options, and be able to have some extra money left over.

So what was the point of this post?

It’s all relative. £350 at the end of every month will feel tight to some people, an absolute luxury to others. Just like people’s perception of what a luxury is and what isn’t. Or what’s essential and what’s not. I have friends who consider facials and gym memberships ‘essential’. They’re not, to me and most people. But they are to them. Because they’ve got used to being able to afford them and can’t foresee a time when they won’t be able to, and therefore they become an essential.

Personally I’d love to have £350 to put in savings each month. We don’t, even though we earn decent money.

I don’t think the OP meant to cause offence.

Op

Even when your children go to school for two of them you are looking at breakfast and after school club. For two children this can cost around £450 a month depending on where you live.

Then it’s packed lunches or school dinners.

I’m thinking you have a large car loan?

Your mortgage is only 900£. Your council tax and bills can’t be more than £1500.

So come on where is the rest going? How much is that loan?

£350 a month after bills would feel extremely tight to me. That doesn’t mean people aren’t worse off. That doesn’t mean the OP can’t post her concerns