How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

yourwan please read my last post.

We are talking about hypothetical amounts of money if I were to have a second child.

Other costs would be childcare and travel to facilitate work (appx £2k) and then bills.

I think so many people don't realise how expensive children are when they're small. They might not require expensive toys or days out, but childcare costs are huge. Of course spending upwards of 1k on childcare/month is going to mean you don't have much disposable income.

But childcare costs aside, a lot of the costs on this thread are choices. You don't have spend money in gift shops, buy cinema popcorn (or even go to the cinema regularly), go to soft-play or cafes or anything on a regular basis. I certainly never expected it growing up and the young children in my family certainly don't have those experiences on a regular basis. There are cheaper options, it's just that a lot of people expect to be able to go out and do those things without any consequence or impact.

think so many people don't realise how expensive children are when they're small

yeah we haven't a clue. All our own children don't count as experience at all?

We are talking about hypothetical amounts of money if I were to have a second child
Hypothetically you're still loaded.

yeah we haven't a clue. All our own children don't count as experience at all?

It's pretty obvious I meant before they arrive...

I was merely pointing out how nonsensical it sounded that a household with an £80k+ was being told it couldn’t afford the cinema, because in the context of what was being discussed that’s what was being said

In the context of what was being discussed...mmm.

If you spend all your money on other things then you could earn £14k a month and not have any left over for the cinema.

This is all a bit of pointless handwringing though as it is so hypothetical. In reality all you have to do is save for a year to substantially increase your disposable income for the future. Easy.

Hypothetically we’d have less than 8% of our take home income each month to spend on anything that wasn’t a necessity, apart from DS’s swimming lessons and amazon prime. £80-odd a week to cover clothes and shoes, emergencies, birthdays and Xmas, savings. When, as you say we are pulling in almost £5k a month that is soul destroying.

I’m not saying I’ve got it bad comparatively, I’m just st saying what I’m saying.

We bring in the same pretty much bang on. We have two kids already. Our childcare is bigger than our mortgage. We have £500 ‘disposable’ but it never seems enough. For example the car service was £300. Then the dogs vaccinations and a wedding gift for a friend meant we actually had £50 approx for all the kids stuff for the month including ballet lessons. It’s not a huge amount to play with in all honesty.

Maybe look at it like you have £80 a week PLUS childcare costs as disposable income, but you're choosing to spend the childcare part on your family?

Luckily they're temporary costs and in the long run you'll be much better off for keeping up with your careers and once the children are in school those necessary costs will drop dramatically.

shadow we have 3 friends getting married this year but hopefully that will be he last if the weddings for a while now. But you are right these are the things that I guess we do now that we can afford, but I hate the thought of not being able to go to a wedding because we don’t have the funds.

I’m quite surprised at your mortgage, I was expecting higher. We don’t have a dissimilar income and our expenses are:

Mortgage: 800
Car finance: 300
Utilities: 120
Council tax: 180
Food: 400/500
Fuel: 350
Phones: 60

So we still have a lot remaining to save and spend really

rockin the difference seems to be childcare expenses then!

As someone said you may get backlash but I get it. That's not a lot of money to be left with.

I think you probably just need to go over everything with a fine toothcomb. I'm one of those annoying spread sheet control freak types so I watch every penny - this isn't for everyone but if you wrote down everything you spend over a period of say a couple of months it would help give you a clearer picture of exactly where all your spare income is going. £750 left over for food and petrol and other stuff seems reasonable to me - so I would look at that first. I've found meal planning and then writing a list before I go to the shops helps as does sticking to - it not always easy when DH is pushing the trolly. Theatre and Cinema trips are expensive but I look out for previews and have saved ££'s over the years.

Also look at your other outgoings - switch providers, get cheaper insurance, mobile phone tariffs etc. There must be some tweeks you can do to make life easier. Is there anything you are paying for like gym memberships that you could cut down on. Would one of you working part time to reduce childcare costs help?

Take home pay is good. I'm surprised you think £750 is not a lot.

rockin how are your utilities only £180? What about insurances? TV licence, petrol, car running costs. Do you have Netflix, sky, boiler cover? Breakdown cover?

Our childcare is paid for by vouchers already deducted before we get our salary. Are you double counting them?

I actually don't think it is that much to be left with if you're both working full time but I suppose it just goes to show how ridiculous the cost of living is versus salaries

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time, op. You've never suggested that you're not well off, and I totally understand what you mean.

We have 3 kids and live a very comfortable life, but we don't feel all that comfortable comparative to our income on paper. My dh finds it hard to comprehend how little (relatively) there is to spare for, say, a fancy dinner out together. I know thousands of people couldn't consider going out for dinner, but that's not the point. We used to be able to go out for dinner regularly pre-kids, so it's sometimes hard to accept that it's just not possible anymore.

You're allowed to be incredulous about how much it will cost to have another child. It's eye watering.

I don't know why you're getting such a hard time, op. You've never suggested that you're not well off

How is OMG we're so SKINT! not suggesting that they are not well off?

Crying the poor mouth when you're in the top 10% of earners is not going to get you applause around here.

I am assuming that you are going to be so hard up because of childcare expenses. So the £350 a month left is for clothes and spending money. A lot of people have a tiny fraction of that amount left over. I worked out that your bills and mortgage come to £3750 which is a lot of money. Presumably that includes childcare.

I've read the whole thread and still don't see what you're whining about. Youve got £350 left over. if you really want another kid then you'll cut your cloth and make some sacrifices somewhere. You're not skint. Just sounds like you're shit with money.

angelina I do all of those things. It’s not about what I could save because I don’t know where our money goes, I do know exactly where it is going because I have it all on my spreadsheet.

rockin no not double counting. the vouchers are on top of what we bring home. The £4.5k is what goes into our bank account.

I know a friend who had twins found it cheaper to have a nanny at home than it was to pay for 2 lots of childcare in a nursery. Don’t know if that’s an option?

I think the op has had a hard time too. I don't think £750 is much for a calendar month including food and all discretionary spending. Admittedly I have four adults to feed and for all those struggling with childcare wait until they're at uni and on minimum maintenance grants - at the same time.