How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

Genuine question, what does the 450 a month on travel cover?

If you spend this plus need a car are you living in the wrong place?

Actually I said with ALL the suggestions and if I had full info (which of course I'm not expecting but I know from running a home as do most of us I'd need to know a ton of other things that wouldn't be safe to disclose here) yea I reckon i could save you and I certainly think you could do it, at least £100 per month.

Add that to the already £1490 Pcm you have as disposable income that's £1590 Pcm disposable income (which btw is several hundred more than my TOTAL income) that's £2690 per year.

And that's WITHOUT losing the car which I'm struggling to see why you NEED in a city with excellent public transport which seems to be what you use to get to work. So presumably the car is for leisure purposes. You could hire a car for day trips/weekends/holidays

What other info do you need? These are the expenses that I am basing the ‘£350 left over’ on (just realised I’ve left mobile phones off £25) so what else could I tell you that would reduce these costs?

And yes I'm also thinking there's a lot been left out.

Tv licence, clothes, shoes, haircuts, phones.

Why do you need to SEE why I need a car. It’s absolutely irrelevant why I need it. If I say I need it then that’s the same as saying you don’t see why I have to pay my mortgage.

For a lot of things it's very personal info because it's dependant on postcode, credit rating (requiring all your security info), driving history (any points etc) none of which would be acceptable to ask for or safe for you to give.

Yes these things that I’ve left out are things that would need to be covered by the £350 a month. I’ve also said that MULTIPLE TIMES.

The figures I’ve given are ones you say you can save me £100 on but I can only see £10 savings.

A I'm not the only person that's queried the need for a car

B no it's not the same as a mortgage because a home, shelter IS a need

for what things? What are you saying you could save me money on exactly?

While I’m sure costs could be cut, surely the point of the OP (please correct me if I am wrong) was that with good salaries it is surprising that things like giving up a car need to be complicated.

Inspired by this thread I’ve just done a bit of research and saved £6 a month on my phone bill. That is going to make hardly any difference when I have just had to buy 4 pairs of children’s shoes and pay out for all their activities.

No one else is repeatedly saying I don’t need a car when I say that I do.

If I say it’s a NEED then it’s a NEED. Why can’t you take that on face value?

Sorry, I meant contemplated not complicated.

Exactly rainbow

You're being deliberately obtuse now, I can't give exact figures because I don't have your full personal info. I gave an estimate based on DECADES of experience managing on very tight budgets (even when working 12 hour days) inc 15 years as a Lp.

I'm not your personal budget manager.

The car is probably needed to drop the child off to the CM and drive to the station - saving valuable time probably

Genuine question, what does the 450 a month on travel cover?

That’ll be 2 x London commute travelvards or season tickets. Not possible to do it cheaper [voice of bitter experience]

If you spend this plus need a car are you living in the wrong place?

To live closer to work would outweigh the car costs many many times over.

We ‘needed’ a car when living in London in a different way to how we ‘need’ a car living outside London but life wouldn’t have been as possible without. Hiring cars or car share clubs are great when single/no kids but an enormous and expensive PITA when with kids, in my experience.

I’m not being obtuse. Why won’t you say what of those items on my list you could save me on if I gave you more personal info? You are avoiding answering the question

I’m not asking for figures, I’m asking which things you could save me money on.

Plus you don’t know what op does for work. My car is essential for my work.

So basically if you watch every penny, hardly ever have a meal out, do no structured activities, have no holidays and give up the convenience of the car you could have loads of money. That is of course the reality of life for many. But it’s fucking miserable for that to be reality on good salaries and for years to come.

FWIW OP, we had a second child when financially it would have been better to stick to one. Never regretted it for a second although our overdraft tells a different story.

Rainbow - well it depends on people's choices doesn't it? Iirc one pp said she and a couple they're friends with, similar incomes but they opted for a bigger house in a better area whereas pp and partner opted for a smaller house in a not quite as well regarded area - those choices make a big difference.

Even cars - big difference between getting an old banger or a brand new executive saloon with personalised spec.

But the truly skint DON'T have those choices available.

Also £6 pcm on the phone might not seem much but that's £72 a year it all adds up, so well done. Did it take long to do? That cover a couple pairs of shoes?

"Why won’t you say what of those items on my list you could save me on if I gave you more personal info?" Omg I DID in my notes on your breakdown.

If the car saves time fine - but that's also a choice. I'm sure there's plenty of lower waged workers in London, who also have to get DC to cm's/nurseries and then get to work, possibly working shifts who don't have cars. They get up earlier etc. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but if that's op's choice she can own it.

Graphista, I have to admit, yes it does cover two pairs of shoes so you have made me think I should look for different ways to save small bits of money. It took about 15 mins so fair point.

Re.cars, we have a pretty high spec car that on the one hand is an extravagance. On the other my DH does a lot of driving at night and we get snow sometimes and icy roads frequently in the winter and he needs a car equipped for that so after a few hairy trips to work in the old one we pay out for this one.

I never said the car saves me time. You have invented that.

Out of the notes on my list you saved me a tenner.