How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

A nanny may possibly work out cheaper for two then... you’d have to do the sums.

Honestly OP I don’t think YABU. Children are expensive. You’re sensible for thinking about the financial implications. It depends how much you really want that second baby, because on your salary, you could make it work, it’s just whether you want to live a different kind of lifestyle for a while. That’s not me being judgy, I get it.

The best thing to do op is save as hard as hell right now so that you can top up your monthly spends.

Or consider remortgaging to pay that loan off. Then you’ll have 650 per month spare which is much more appealing and you might even get a uk break with that once a year

Or would the childminder give you a sibling discount?

op, not wanting a second child isn't a crime

just be honest with yourself, you dont need to start a daft thread like this to justify your choice

oblada
we are on a bit over 80k gross per month

wow thats another league

footballers wives territory

I totally get it OP. I also used to think we would be much better off once the children were at school. We are a tiny bit but that money tends to go on extra curricular activities (swimming relatively cheap but dancing etc not cheap!) and shoes for the children. I was so surprised how much ballet etc is for them. This school term we will have bills totalling around £500 for clubs etc. Sadly this is what we were saving by them needing less childcare now they are in school so it has not translated to a real saving in our bank account.

I didn’t have the opportunity to dance etc when I was a young child and I want to give that to my DCs.

On paper we should have loads of money. In practice not at all. It is very frustrating.

Interesting about monthly foodbills. I told the cashier in Sainsburys today that I'd read the average weekly family shop was £55ish. She laughed out loyd and said when she has a family of four shop going through for a whole week it's more like £250. When she and her DH shop she said they spent about £150 and then did at least two top ups each week for about another £50-£80.

i wouldn’t risk a nanny on a tight budget because one downside is that if they get sick you can end up paying for weeks and having no childcare - SSP isn’t much, but if you value them you will end up paying more than that and of course you still have no childcare.

It was ruinous for us for the time we did that. Of course you also have to pay pension and SMPthese days and arranging cover is more than I’d want to take on.

Surely the 80k a month is a typo?

That's almost 10 million a year!

So for starters £1490 available to save towards mat leave/childcare future additional costs right now.

£390 when future childcare is being paid not £350 so that's an extra £40 a month (£480 a year)

Childcare mythical - 1100
Childcare actual - 450
Mortgage - 900 - is it possible to take mortgage breaks while on mat leave?
Travel to work - 450 - is that via public transport? If so what's the car for? How old are you, are you eligible for the young persons railcard possibly? I could be wrong on this one as I'm not familiar with Oyster cards but there seem to be some discounted options available - gold annual card (I'm sure London mners will know more about this)
Loan - 300 - is this for the car? Is it a finance agreement or did you shop around? When will it be paid off? Even if you shopped around initially you can continue to do so, you've probably got excellent credit , juggle among different lenders.
Council tax - 200 - have you checked if your banding is correct? That might get you cheaper bill. Some councils discount if you can pay annually too
Water - 50 - shopped around? Usage kept to a minimum or not excessive?
Gas and electric - 100 - you've already said you shop around for this so have to assume you're with best supplier, again usage?
Internet - 30 - mines £20 a month so that'd save you £10
Car insurance - 40 - again I'd query if car essential, assume you shopped around for this too, but also depends on type of car, size of engine, driving style, some insurers offer better deals if you are willing to have your driving monitored.
Home insurance - 30 I understand for many mortgage contracts this is required, again I'm assuming regular shopping around for this
Life insurance - 15 - some mortgages require this too
Food - 300 - I'd need to know exactly what this entailed. I'm £40 a week for dd and I (dd is 17 I'm veggie so eat as healthily as most families on ave) and yes it includes toiletries & cleaning products and items for dd for packed lunches.
Petrol- 100 - there are apps that keep you up to date on your local petrol stations who's cheapest that day, driving style also makes a huge difference, I've already queried whether you even need a car but even if you have one you can minimise use. Your Oyster card covers weekends too probably? Also walk, cycle especially now the nicer weather is here.
Prime- 10 - you've said yourself this could be cancelled - is that £10 a month? How? According to Amazon it's £79 a year which is £6.58 a month? I know you said you'd rounded but I'd have rounded down with that.
Apple Music - 15 - as above, tons of free radio and music streaming apps (I think my dd has all of them 🙄)
Swimming lessons- 20 - I taught dd to swim myself (she has a disability too which made it...interesting - especially as she was undiagnosed at the time. Not a natural floater. But lots of fun and a real bonding experience)

I'm pretty confident I could save you at least £100 a month. Without majorly affecting your lifestyle - more if you were willing to compromise it. And that's more or less off "top of my head" excepting checking prime price and brief look at oyster site. And an albeit brief look suggests a nanny would be around £1200. I've been one myself but not in London and a long time ago. That price is via agencies and there were ways to find good non agency nannies but I'm not sure if that's still the case. Some childminders contract for sick pay now though I never did.

Regarding days out etc - you're in London! There's tons of free/cheap things to do with young children either in London or not far out of it. Mse has been mentioned - it's fantastic for suggestions, recommendations and vouchers for places.

Talking of typos.... 1 million haha

But giving up a car is a massive inconvenience! Yes of course she might save money doing it but I thought the whole point of the OP was saying that it is frustrating that with a good salary she would need to make so many sacrifices. Giving up a car is not an easy money saving option!

Actually you’ve saved me £10 on internet unless I cancel prime, apple and swimming lessons which I already said I knew I could save on.

Everything else is as cheap as I can get it I assure you and again yes we do need the car.

You spend £40 a week on 2 people, I was suggesting £75 a week for 4 so actually I would have been spending less than you

Exactly. Swimming lessons would be a non negotiable for me. I couldn’t swim until late despite my parents’ attempts to teach me on and off. It was miserable to be that child whose friends could all swim and I won’t have that for my DC if I can help it.

Paying for me AND DS to swim once a week wouldn’t be any cheaper than paying for a swim lesson for him TBH

But Graphista all your suggestions (whilst good) are not really the point- we’ve already established that OP likes the lifestyle she has so she’s not likely to want to give up her car, or cancel her child’s swimming lessons (which I don’t think are that expensive anyway- my son’s cost £93 a month!).

A lot of this also comes down to can people be bothered? As in, many people with relatively good disposable income literally can’t be bothered to check out how to save money or don’t think about every purchase on a need basis. (Not saying this is you OP).

Our car insurance was due a couple of months ago and I was quoted something that sounded crazy- we don’t have unlimited money by ANY means but we are reasonably well off and i did go on a price comparison site and get it down by over £300 (annual). But most of my friends would have just paid it because it takes (a bit) of time to do that.

Similarly today on instagram a label my friends and I also follow launched a new bag that I think was £55- she immediately bought one- I nearly did but didn’t because actually I could find a much better use for £55.

You might be better off having a Nanny than paying two lots of childcare. Plus if the older child is off school sick you at least don't need to organise emergency leave.

It is all relative. I used to live in Glasgow and had a two bed flat I had bought in the 90's when I was working full time. By the time DD2 came along in 2005, my mortgage payments were only £98 a month. Which was just as well as I ended up as a single parent of 2 kids and developed a permanent disability. So ended up living on benefits which was a struggle but I managed.

Now living in Dorset with a DP who earns around £27k pa plus bonuses. We have four DC between us, 1 adult living with a partner, 1 at uni, one living with another parent and one living full time with us. We don't get any benefits other than CB for one child and our rent is astronomical compared to previous mortgage costs. We probably have less disposable income than the op every month but I am at home and therefore can use my time to shop very carefully for bargains and find the best deals, something the op probably doesn't have time to do.

Second children don't cost as much, especially if they are the same sex as the first but it depends on what you want to provide in terms of 'stuff'.

Kids need somewhere to sleep, food and transport ie car seat/pram.

The biggest costs are when they reach the end of primary/beginning of secondary school and beyond. DD2 is 12 and I've paid out for 2 residential trips so far this year, one abroad. I have helped DD1 out with petrol and insurance costs for her car. We support his DD2 financially too. But by the time your kids are that age you will likely have higher incomes with lower mortgage costs and no loans etc to pay off.

You get one life. If you want another child then have one. Don't fret the small stuff. Don't worry too much about whether you can afford to cover birthdays/Xmas etc for extended family - just tell family it's kids only from now on.

You get one life. If you want another child then have one. Don't fret the small stuff. Don't worry too much about whether you can afford to cover birthdays/Xmas etc for extended family - just tell family it's kids only from now on.

just wanted to copy that from PP - kids are priceless - won't you be entitled to maternity leave so no nursery fees from the very beginning.

But Graphista all your suggestions (whilst good) are not really the point- we’ve already established that OP likes the lifestyle she has so she’s not likely to want to give up her car, or cancel her child’s swimming lessons (which I don’t think are that expensive anyway- my son’s cost £93 a month!).

But that's my point - it's a choice, one she's lucky enough to be in a position to have but op started this thread claiming to be skint - she's not - there are savings that COULD be made AND She has a significantly good amount of disposable income.

As in, many people with relatively good disposable income literally can’t be bothered to check out how to save money or don’t think about every purchase on a need basis. - yep - cos they don't have to cos they're NOT skint.

Regarding family size, I've only the one not out of financial decision but a combination of personal circumstances and medical issues. I'd have liked more but actually we have a lovely close relationship that I don't think would have been the same if a sibling had been added. I'm sure I'd have loved another just as much and it would still have been lovely - but not the same.

No, the point is that you said you could save me loads if I told you what I spend my money on and al you came up with was a tenner on internet and told me to get rid of the car that I HAVE SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT I NEED.

Jeez, not RTFT but I bloody wish that was my level of disposable income.
£350 a month? I wish.

Do either of you work for a large employer? I can get tons of deals via work. Can you get shopping vouchers to reduce your supermarket spend? Can you get a good deal on a breakdown service or are you doing without? What about dental insurance or do you have an NHS dentist? Have you included dentist costs in your list?

As far as income goes have you included child benefit? Your DH is a higher rate tax payer so doesn't get as many childcare vouchers? How far over the limit is he? Could he pay more into a pension to take him below the HR limit? Does that help or do you lose more than you gain?

And (you're going to love me for this) you haven't included TV licence, car services and MOTs, road tax, breakdown cover, school lunches. There may be more, I'd want to move the clothing budget at least for the eldest child (school uniform and shoes etc).

I also didn’t want to be the one to say on our budget there’s a lot more items on it than yours OP.