How can it be possible that we would be so skint!

[BasinHaircut]

Just doing some sums to basically work out whether we can ‘afford’ to have another child. We can, but I’ve just worked out that even though DH and I bring home £4500 per month net, PLUS childcare vouchers of £385 per month, once paying another set of childcare fees 4 days per week, after everything was paid out each month we would have £750 left over for food, petrol and other spends. There would be 4 of us to feed so let’s say £300 a month, plus £100 petrol. £350 for all of us for anything else.

How is it possible that we would have so little? I know it would be short term (until free 15 hours kick in and then better again once they started school) but what the fuck???

Going through our expenses it’s only things such as amazon prime and Apple Music that we could feasibly claw back each month. Nothing that would make a dent.

We are lucky I suppose that we own our house, have renovated it already so not expecting any big expenses in the medium term. But still, even Xmas would be a real struggle!

This is not a stealth boast I promise, I genuinely cannot understand how we can have so much coming in and still not even have enormous go to justify a takeaway if we have another child.

Spoilt little rich girl imo
wow, jealousy does make you bitter!

350 quid a month makes you a spoilt little rich girl 😂

Wow!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3210914-Grey-skinned-hungry-children

TBH it all adds up. We live in london too, its not a cheap place to live, our mortgage alone is 2.5k. Never mind the nursery and school fees. Oh and before I get the nasty attacks about being a 'little rich girl', I grew up in poverty with my three sisters in a 1 bed tenement in Glasgow with an outside shared toilet before being chucked out to a new town and a father who left us. So it was free school meals, provident cheques for school uniform and my mother counting every penny, before she was able to go and get a factory job and it was still a struggle. It was bloody hard so I do fully understand how it feels to live like that. However I have done well for myself and I am in a position to give my DC a different experience. OP- you can make cuts, we drive a small car, got rid of amazon prime, cancelled sky, got cheap phone contracts, worked out our weekly food menus and do one shop a week. Review your insurance and make sure you are on the cheapest option and do the same for gas and electricity. You can make savings ....

OP I get where you're coming from.

I stopped reading all the posts as you were getting such a bashing.

My husband and I have similar net income, live in home counties and understand the high living costs.

We had a similar conversation when my DD was about 2yrs old. Decided to wait until she was at school as childcare is about 1k a month here.

I have now had 2 miscarriages and am finding it hard to get pregnant. My DD is now 7 and I'm not getting any younger, so the reality is that she probably won't have a sibling. :(

I think its sounds like you could afford it if you continue to be sensible with money.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't put it off if its something you really want.

Small children are only small cost for a while. There’s a financial window between that (not to exclude the extra classes/activities) and older children and teenage/college And beyond.
Children are very expensive.

Graphista that was the thread I mentioned in my PP. I was in tears reading it, it was so heart wrenching.

I have not read the full thread but there have been changes to tax free childcare. I am assuming you are claiming the childcare vouchers and one of you is a higher rate tax payer from the £385 you have written, Vouchers are tax return efficient with one child and low bills but I think there are better option with two children and high bills. You can get 20% upto 2k per child per year.

www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs

I know what you mean OP. The essentials really add up. Its very annoying. And when youre used to being able to have meals out wothout budgeting etc it is a shock.

spring if you rtt you will see where it would all go.

mustshow

space aside from prime we already do all of those things. We don’t have sky, just prime for extra films and bits on top of free view. And we only watch the ‘free’ stuff. The delivery side of it is also a godsend as we are fairly time poor.

buttercup I’m sorry if you are having a bad time but it’s really not my fault.

Thanks 43 yes it’s definately something I will be looking into. With 2 sets of childcare you are right it would make us better off.

It's all relative, we take home half of what you do but I budget to within an inch of my life and we seem to bumble along quite nicely. Every single penny is accounted for and I have separate pots of money for Christmas, cars, DCs, birthday presents, holidays etc etc. We also menu plan, this week it's freezer/cupboard surprise

However we have family members who earn about four times if not more what we do and are constantly stressing about money. But they have a flipping huge mortgage, leased cars and spend money without any thought. If I suggested they started a spreadsheet and budgeted they'd laugh at me.

It would be nice not to have to account for everything but as I've always done it, I think old habits would die hard.

Op same here , on paper I have a huge salary but after running costs and pension and food there is little left for ‘luxuries’

That’s Ok . We have a roof , heating , food

Only when you compare yourself to other people do you not realise how lucky you are

Out another way / don’t compare yourself to others ! Getting Netflix and not seeing TV adverts is a wise investment !!!!

Have my first ever biscuit!

don't get having 4.5k a month and mortgage £900 leaving £3.4k

Easily done though. Our income is approx £4.7k net with approx outgoings:

Mortgage - £550
Car - £200
Fuel - £350
Childcare - £130
Loans - £650
Insurances - £90
TV - £70
Phones - £50

And yet we have cheap holidays, guessing we spend under £2k per year on average, I wear clothes with holes in, DW buys some new clothes but nothing outrageous and our DC does have nice clothes.

We still feel totally skint, and this thread is motivating me to try and work out exactly where all this cash goes, it’s certainly not on eating out and Starbucks.

It's the childcare that's the problem. I have the option to pay interest only payments on my mortgage; which I did until my DD went to school. Maybe you could look into something similar?

Again, I know that we are in a very fortunate position compared to some people. I have lots of choices available to me that many others don’t and I really am truly grateful for that.

I think what we need to decide is whether we want our current lifestyle or a second child more. And if I’m honest I really don’t know what the answer to that is. As people have pointed out it’s not just the few years of expensive childcare really, it’s for life.

I would hope that is never regret having a child if we decided to go for it and have much less money and a massive lifestyle change as a result, but I can’t say that I would definitely feel that way. I’d much rather regret NOT having a second child, than regret one of my own children.

Lots of food for thought

Ignore the bashers too many people have children without thought of cost which is wholly irresponsible.

Lady - I get that totally. Skint? No. Spare money for meals/nights out/m etc though, no. I don't have any disposable income left and pretty much live payday to payday
But I would cut back everything else before the horse

Spoilt little rich girl . Ridiculous comment.

I'm certainly not rich. My budget for food, petrol and all the extras is probably similar to the ops prediction £750 a month. It honestly isn't easy when you live in London and have DC.

So the op will have £350 for extras...so £90 a week...it's tough.

An example of my week recently. Kettle breaks...buy cheapo one from supermarket. £18. DD loses hat/scarf/gloves at school during the snow. I have no idea if these will turn up but in the meantime I can't send her to school the next day without them...it's freezing. Dash to shop after school and find a set for a tenner. Weekend, kids want to go swimming. £12 for swimming...£4 for a drink and biscuit in cafe after. Dc1 has a school project and needs some glue, coloured card etc to do it. £5 on bits from poundshop. Other DC wants to do some baking so quick whizz round supermarket for some ingredients...easily another £10.

We are now up to £60 spend...then one of the DC has a school trip which costs another tenner. Someone in household needs a prescription..another £9 roughly.

The money doesn't go far...you can say these things I've described are a luxury. But fgs, this is the UK in 2018. I don't think a trip to the swimming pool and an orange juice afterwards should be a luxury for DC.

Most people want a standard of living where they don’t need to worry about money. Where you have cash for when your fridge breaks down, or your tap leaks or someone suggests a meal out for a get together.
Of course it’s a worry when you’re used to that and you have to get used to a different way of life.
But things change. You won’t always have to pay extortionate childcare costs and often, people have pay rises and move jobs and earn more money as time goes on.
Also people lose their jobs or develop health issues or any other combination of things. You just don’t know.
All you can do is go with what you really want to do.

That’s it day. Do I want to give up that security - not just for me but for the DS I already have - to bring another life into this world when the upshot would be that we have to decide between such simple things as swimming or soft play because we can’t afford both?

In the scenario I set out to begin with these costs are not including other things we have now and would have to give up such as our personal leisure and exercise activities, things that we have for ourselves. And without holidays that IMO are not possible when you only have £80-90 a week spare cash.

I’m not comparing myself to other people, I know they manage on a lot less but that doesn’t mean I have to be satisfied with what I consider a low amount left over each month. It’s not a race to the bottom after all.

Yanbu op. Just because other people survive on less doesn't mean you have to live that life. I take Home a similar amount and it is rubbish to have been used to having tonnes of disposable income to then find it dramatically reduced.

I nearly aborted my 4th child as I was so worried about how we would afford to live. I'm a supposed top earner not in London not living a particularly extravagant life style. Luckily my dh persuaded me it would be ok. And it has been. We have a bit of credit card debt and a lovely little boy.

I got a small pay rise and that took some of the pressure off. You are not unreasonable to moan though - I don't think £350 a month left over is very much at all. How are you meant to save anything for your future is beyond me.

To be honest as your ds gets bigger other expenses will catch up with the childcare:

Swimming lessons
Dinner money
Presents for two children's parties a month
Football club
Music lessons and instrument rental
Your ds will end up with a laptop and phone and probably other expensive gadgets
School trips
Subs for cubs
School trips
And there will be wrap around care or an au pair when they are at school and you are at work.
In 5-7 years you will need to redecorate, need new windows, washing machine, etc.

OTH you and your DH may get pay rises that reduce the proportion of the mortgage over time. You may have inheritances or win the lottery.

I think if you don't have a burning ache in your heart for another child, I did, then you should maintain the status quo.

I think you sound very sensible and understand exactly where you are coming from. My mother always said it's better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable but rich and miserable is preferable to poor and miserable. I have a feeling you will be miserable if your lifestyle is compromised. There is nothing wrong with that and it's wise to be pragmatic.

Op so you’ve thought hard about the cons, what about the pros now?

There is so much to do for free in parks and outdoors. We have bikes, tennis rackets, kites, balls and are often out.
There are free Activities in libraries, galleries and museums.

You don’t have to go to soft play for dc to have fun.

You can take the kids swimming yourself and combine it with occasional lessons. They’ll love it more as a family.

Groupon is fab for deals for cinema, bowling, zoos, restaurants.

I gave up my gym membership and started running and walking and use dvds at home.

What I’m trying to say is that you can still have a good quality of life with some adjustment.

Think about if you actually really want a second dc.