Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is being U cafe owner or family?

155 replies

Hotcrossscotcheggs · 03/04/2018 00:53

On my FB tonight a story came up and has been shared a LOT about a family who visited a cafe and ordered their food to then be asked to leave as their 3 year old was upset they also mentioned that 3 year old has additional needs.
The page of the cafe has been flooded with 1 star bad reviews since of people who haven't visited but thought the treatment of the family was horrendous.
The cafe then responded and said that they too have a lively 3 year old daughter/grandaughter and understand children can be loud and that this is fine. They also said that they didn't ask the family to leave just asked if they could get the children to simmer down a little as other customers had complained. They also said the mother left and said "I will ruin you".

I'm not sure how I feel about the whole situation having a nephew with asd and a boisterous 20 month old i understand how difficult eating out can be with kids however this lady's business has been totally slated online and the cafe has had 60+ bad reviews since the post was shared. I'm not sure both parties ate being 100% honest with thrir accounts of what happened.

Who do you think was being unfair?

OP posts:
Spikeyball · 03/04/2018 17:27

givemesteel there are quite a few on the Facebook page saying they shouldn't have taken the child somewhere new if it upsets her.

MagneticMan · 03/04/2018 18:06

givemesteel there are quite a few on the Facebook page saying they shouldn't have taken the child somewhere new if it upsets her.

Of course the child should go to new places, but do it in a sensible way

What they should have said is 'they shouldn't have taken the child somewhere new on a busy Bank Holiday Weekend if new places upset her'

Why would you do that? You know the triggers for your child are being somewhere new plus waiting for food. Why on earth would you set her up to fail by taking her somewhere new when it's likely to be extremely busy? There must have been other, more familiar places to have lunch that day. I doubt the 3 year old picked that cafe.

If I'm introducing someone with those sort of triggers to somewhere new then I will initially go with them at a quiet time of day. Perhaps just get a coffee and cake at 10.30am so they can get used to the new place without the stress of waiting for a meal to be cooked. Two or three visits (possibly more) so the place is no longer 'new', then introduce the 'waiting for a meal' aspect.

Reasonable adjustments are useless if the parents don't/won't help their own child ease gently into a new experience.

JediStoleMyBike · 03/04/2018 18:08

I tend to believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I'm guessing complaints were made, the staff member was maybe more abrasive than they needed to be but that the kids had been making too much noise.

What is absolutely bang out of order is all the reviews being left from people who have not visited. These should be deleted by Facebook. Utterly ridiculous that people have taken one side of what is a very pointless complaint and run with it as a means to entertain themselves. Lots of people have stepped up to say they don't have problems visiting the cafe with kids so it must just be parents who don't bother to quieten theirs.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 03/04/2018 19:43

Kids should go to cafes at any age. You just have to show them how to behave. If they are too noisy or running around etc and you can’t stop them you should leave. I have a disabled child who when stressed screams because she can’t talk yet due to delays. Talking seems to be enough and something to look at keeps her occupied but if it didn’t id take her out. I don’t like kids running around so I don’t let mine do it.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 03/04/2018 19:55

AddictiveCereal I agree with that. I was in a small kfc a while back and in came about six I think, disabled adults, some with Down syndrome and some in wheelchairs with difficulties. They had two carers with them who were happy and so good with them. They were chatting away happily to eachother and ordering what they like and having a lovely time. They were more noisy than most but it was nice, and made me smile. We had our little girl with us who is disabled and it reminded me that if she needed carers in the future they would take her out like they do now in her pram if it’s a nice day and she loves it. Her daycare takes the kids out too if it’s nice. It makes me smile. If they got uncontrollable though and we’re becoming a danger, I would expect the carers to try and sort the situation out and if unable, take them outside so they can calm down safely.

OliviaStabler · 03/04/2018 20:01

I tend to believe the owner over the family. The family made such as huge online fuss over the incident, including tagging in the
newspaper, they sound the type of people who are oblivious to the comfort of others.

When you go to a public place to eat, like a café or a pub, there will
be a certain level of noise. However most people don't want anyone who cranks up the noise level over a period of time for whatever reason; naughty children, drunk adults etc.

Aridane · 03/04/2018 20:19

Would just like to say that I don’t know the family concerned or the cafe in question Grin

SusanneLinder · 03/04/2018 20:42

I don't know either party involved, but I must say the cafe owner is pretty rude on Trip Advisor...Grin

MagneticMan · 04/04/2018 00:20

I must say the cafe owner is pretty rude on Trip Advisor

Never did the owner of the White Moose Cafe any harm ... Grin

UpOver · 04/04/2018 01:17

The parents come across as awful and unconvincing whereas the owner sounds much more plausible and sensible.

Even if you were to believe the contents of the complaint the way they have gone about it is obnoxious.

No one would complain about a short shriek.

PyongyangKipperbang · 04/04/2018 03:49

Well regardless of who is right or wrong, given that the wife is a teacher, I wouldnt like to be her when the head reads that article........

givemesteel · 04/04/2018 07:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Sleepyblueocean · 04/04/2018 07:49

"No one would complain about a short shriek."

They do although it is usually members of the public rather than business owners. Some people don't want anyone who behaves differently around them (flapping, repetitive behaviour, non verbal noises etc) and will moan about the first obvious thing they can complain about.
It's quite likely that both parties overreacted but it can be upsetting when you first realise that people don't want your child with a disability around them. Over time you learn to block unpleasant people out or deal with them better when you have to.
I'd rather her as my child's teacher than a few I have come across who regard disabled children as a nuisance.

jkl0311 · 04/04/2018 07:49

Being the cafe owner once upon a time..... I had 2 situations.... 1. very autistic 10yo came in with family who booked a table at the quietest time possible (opened early for them to sit in and eat) 2. One of the busiest breakfast days of summer 2 families came in with preschoolers the boy had the biggest tantrum you ever seen the sugar pot was chucked at another table he was screaming over and over and the parents just said oh he's adhd and done nothing to control him. I had to give a refund to 6 people that went toe to toe with me for not throwing them out.... worse service of my life.
Hindsight is a great thing but I wish I told the parents to do more

peacheachpearplum · 04/04/2018 09:07

No one would complain about a short shriek. I was on a coach trip, years ago, my eldest was roughly six months old. A group of elderly people got on (Oh God I'm that age now) gave us the death stare and loudly commented about how the trip was going to be a nightmare, why were people allowed on with children etc.

Baby was a dream, not a peep out of him. As I was gathering stuff to get off one of them came up and said how wonderful he was. I ignored them, as a teenage mum I was sick of being judged and embarrassed by rude people.

So sometimes children get moaned about when they haven't even done anything.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 04/04/2018 09:12

I think if people can't run a business which families will naturally frequent, without having a meltdown every time an imperfect child comes in, they're in the wrong business. I can't stand this intolerance of children in public, people thinking that they deserve a 100% peaceful time because, in their world, they're entitled to it for some reasons we have to go-exist with children wether we like it or not and I think some adults need to grow the fuck up sometimes

TammyWhyNot · 04/04/2018 09:17

It’s interesting.

A school near us, in an area of postcode wars, has a specific clause in the Behaviour policy that kids and parents have to sign up to that says no one will take any arguments or disputes behind those involved, that they must be reported to staff and not taken to outside friends and family.

This is just the adult social media version of gang behaviour and bullying, really, isn’t it?

Not edifying to take part in, in terms of slagging off a cafe or parents you have never met, starting a Facebook campaign, fake Tripadvisor reviews etc.

I hope MN hasn’t just been another tactic..... after all, it might end up in the DM Hmm

JediStoleMyBike · 04/04/2018 09:18

@CherryChasingDotMuncher - a bit of consideration goes both ways surely? I've left cafes before when my LO was having a screaming meltdown so that I could calm her and return.

It isn't fair for anyone to demand absolute silence but equally I made the choice to have kids so why should my choice infringe on other people's enjoyment of a meal / venue / activity?

PaintedHorizons · 04/04/2018 09:38

The "free pass" for disability attitude helps no-one. We need tolerance and consideration for everyone.

My DS has additional needs and is very noise sensitive. Gets extremely distressed if a child is kicking off - so we used to have to leave. He is a teen now so he just doesn't go out. I wouldn't demand that cafes be silent in order to accommodate his needs.

Often the parents of kids who are running round screaming have no thought for the elderly who are not steady on their feet and for whom a broken bone is both likely and serious. But elderly disabilities are dismissed as being irrelevant.

Pinkvoid · 04/04/2018 09:45

It’s difficult because unless you were actually there to witness it, its impossible to say how loud the child actually was. I don’t imagine any restaurant owner would have words over one small shriek, mind...

I have had people glare at me in family-friendly restaurants purely for having children with me. They weren’t doing anything other than chattering amongst themselves yet people on the table beside me were glaring/pulling dirties which made me feel severely uncomfortable. It was in Earls Court so maybe that explains it Grin. I can imagine they’d be the sort of folk to complain over the ‘noise’ my DC definitely weren’t making tbh... Some people just don’t like children. So perhaps their DC weren’t making much noise but another customer complained regardless so the cafe owner felt obliged to do something? It’s a tough one really. As a business owner you have to try and keep everyone happy and as we all know, it’s pretty much impossible.

DeloresJaneUmbridge · 04/04/2018 09:47

My son is autistic, at 15 he is able to cope in restaurants and cafes. At a younger age he would have struggled. It didn't mean we couldn't go but one of us would certainly have removed him if he got to a level which disturbed others.

PaintedHorizons · 04/04/2018 09:47

Just in case I get jumped on for that post - what I mean is that the world is not divided into two - we need to see everyone as having strengths and difficulties - often we will have a range throughout life although some have far more to deal with than others.

We need to, as far as possible, make sure our behaviour does not impact on others - some of whom may find it especially challenging to cope with. Telling people they have to put up with it because the child/adult is disabled and therefore it is discriminatory not to is unsustainable as it can only lead to a sick game of disability top trumps.

As I said I have a child with additional needs and a demented parent plus a condition of my own - so not speaking from an ivory tower

Sleepyblueocean · 04/04/2018 09:57

I don't think running around screaming is ever acceptable and most of the time it is a NT child doing it because generally a child that can't help that much noise, can't be given that level of freedom. A child or adult making noises associated with severe disability is a different issue to this.

Sleepyblueocean · 04/04/2018 10:16

When my son was about 4 we had been to visit family and stopped off for tea at a service station. It was fairly quiet in there and ds was happy being pushed in in his sn buggy, flapping and making happy noises not very loud and not in anyway appearing upset.
As I was getting him into a highchair I noticed a couple with a toddler a few tables away. They were staring with a look of horror at my son. A minute later they picked up all their belongings and moved to the far side of the seating area.
Sometimes a child doesn't have to be doing anything for people to act like complete arseholes.

PaintedHorizons · 04/04/2018 11:00

The running around screaming was not aimed at SN children. It's any child.
I was at a pub lunch outside last summer and a group of families were allowing their children to scoot amidst the tables, climb on and jump off the tables and scream like you wouldn't believe.

We left.