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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is being U cafe owner or family?

155 replies

Hotcrossscotcheggs · 03/04/2018 00:53

On my FB tonight a story came up and has been shared a LOT about a family who visited a cafe and ordered their food to then be asked to leave as their 3 year old was upset they also mentioned that 3 year old has additional needs.
The page of the cafe has been flooded with 1 star bad reviews since of people who haven't visited but thought the treatment of the family was horrendous.
The cafe then responded and said that they too have a lively 3 year old daughter/grandaughter and understand children can be loud and that this is fine. They also said that they didn't ask the family to leave just asked if they could get the children to simmer down a little as other customers had complained. They also said the mother left and said "I will ruin you".

I'm not sure how I feel about the whole situation having a nephew with asd and a boisterous 20 month old i understand how difficult eating out can be with kids however this lady's business has been totally slated online and the cafe has had 60+ bad reviews since the post was shared. I'm not sure both parties ate being 100% honest with thrir accounts of what happened.

Who do you think was being unfair?

OP posts:
Greenhouseonthehill · 03/04/2018 09:40

Also amazed at how many people know the cafe and people involved.

I’m on the fence really; I’ve two Pre schoolers, but dare I say they are very well behaved and I wouldn’t have them down from their table or making a noise, we’d leave. I do wonder for cafes where whole tables are taken up with baby/toddler groups. It generates noise and probably not much profit for the owner.

Failingat40 · 03/04/2018 09:40

I have also seen a post from the dad in the situation and it is a public 'share share share' post so I'm not sure they would be mortified about the shit storm it's created.

Well I hope this dreadful family have good legal cover because if I was the cafe owner I'd have my lawyer sue them for slander.

The Dad has incited others to target this business using social media which is completely out of order.

Hopefully some independent witnesses will come forward and the truth will come out.

Small businesses are so vulnerable to this type of hate campaign, anyone who has left a malicious 1* review without having been there is a fool and I'd be going after them as well.

RB68 · 03/04/2018 10:00

This reply has been deleted

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Stefoscope · 03/04/2018 10:02

'I have seen screen grabs of the cafe owners replies to some poor reviews left prior to this and they're not totally professional'. Why would they need to be though? The idiots who are leaving 1 star reviews without actually visiting the cafe aren't and never will be customers. Just because you own a business, doesn't mean you have to be nice to everyone.

I'm not going to be nice to someone trying to shoplift from me. Or someone who accuses me of being sexist on the basis of 'because sexism is everywhere' without actually being able to provide examples.

Serialweightwatcher · 03/04/2018 10:12

I think it's disgusting that people who have never been and just take the word of a person who has a grudge for whatever reason, jump on the bandwagon and slate a place to the ground ... if it was such a horrendous place and if this was a regular occurrence (which presumably it would be if they were against kids being loud), they would have had poor reviews before now, but they obviously hadn't. All the disgruntled customer had to do was rope in his friends/family to add nasty reviews and then others jump on board when they have no idea what actually happened - not fair

Sleepyblueocean · 03/04/2018 10:35

"there seems to be a belief that they can do whatever the hell they like and because they are special needs its acceptable"

Do you think a wheelchair user is doing so because they think they think they can do whatever the hell they like.

Samcro · 03/04/2018 10:39

funny how people who were not there know the owners were right.....yet are moaning about people who were not there saying the owners were wrong......

myusernamewastakenbyme · 03/04/2018 10:53

I cant bear hearing screaming kids in pubs or cafes...so the cafe owner gets my vote....too many pathetic parents around who wont say no to their kids...

IncyWincyGrownUp · 03/04/2018 10:59

The screen grabs of unprofessional responses to poor reviews are from before this incident.

There are a few poor reviews on trip advisor, most dated before yesterday.

FairfaxAikman · 03/04/2018 11:05

How did we get to the point where the needs of one override the needs of the majority?

I don't for one second believe that kids (SN or not) should be shut away, but I'm a lot more tolerant if I see a parent at least attempting to deal with an episode instead of ignoring it and expecting everyone else to do the same. You also can't expect the other patrons to KNOW a child has SN like ASD or ADHD - it's not like they have flashing signs above their heads.

At the end of the day the other patrons are paying customers and have every right to be pissed off if the experience was ruined for them - they don't get a discount for ruined atmosphere.

As PP have said, I doubt it was a single shriek if it prompted people to complain.

AddictiveCereal · 03/04/2018 11:06

Just in relation to the comments about noises from disabled people in public. Someone above said if you have a disabled child you should just accept you won't be able to eat out with them.

I went to a cafe recently and a group of about 5 disabled adults were brought in by their carers. They did make a good bit more noise than most customers - calling out frequently. It didn't bother me at all. I felt happy to live in a country where disabled people are not locked away in institutions but are part of our society. I want them to be included as anyone else is even if it means that occassionally my time out is not as quiet as it might have been. Why should they lock themselves away to avoid annoying intolerant people?

Whizbang · 03/04/2018 11:13

Disgraceful to leave bad reviews when they’ve never even visited, and deliberately try to ruin a small business. What is wrong with people?

I hope the cafe owners have legal cover under their insurance and pursue a claim for loss of earnings against those fraudulently reviewing.

Anyone know where the cafe is? If local I would certainly visit to show them support.

SusanneLinder · 03/04/2018 11:19

I have an HFA child who used to often have a meltdown when we were out. If she couldn't be calmed down, easiest thing for everyone ( including her), was to remove her from situation. So I'd take her to car/ outside/ loo...wherever till she had calmed down. If she couldn't be calmed, we would pay bill and leave.
She couldn't always help her behaviour, but don't see why anyone else should have to listen to it!

crunchymint · 03/04/2018 11:31

I have stood outside a cafe with a screaming child, and then swapped places.
I am on the side of the cafe. It was obviously more than ordinary 3 year old behaviour. And disability does not mean others have to listen to a screaming or shrieking child constantly.

ReanimatedSGB · 03/04/2018 11:33

In general, malevolent idiots leaving fake bad reviews is a huge problem. it happens with books/films/music as well as restaurants and hotels.

The whole business of MoP reviewing has become worthless, and it never was much cop because the majority of people are stupid and lazy-minded.

SoftSheen · 03/04/2018 11:36

It's not always possible to get young children to behave well in public, but if they are making enough noise to prompt several other customers to complain, then you need to take them out of the cafe (this is the case whether or not the child has additional needs or is simply an over-tired NT 2-3 year old). It's unfair to judge the child for their behaviour but if the parent/adult isn't able to manage it then they need to remove the child from the situation.

WhatATimeToBeAlive · 03/04/2018 11:47

I would visit a cafe more often that asked families with unruly, badly-behaved kids to leave so it would be a 5 star from me.

TomRavenscroft · 03/04/2018 11:50

I don't think it's fair to review a place you haven't been to on the account of only a second-hand review from an (understandably) biased source.

The cafe would be well within their rights to delete the bad reviews on the grounds that people cannot give an informed review of a place they haven't been to.

Rachie1973 · 03/04/2018 12:08

Whizbang

Anyone know where the cafe is? If local I would certainly visit to show them support.

Kingston on Thames I think

Sleepyblueocean · 03/04/2018 12:22

"How did we get to the point where the needs of one override the needs of the majority?"

If you spent some time with a family with a child or adult child with severe disabilities you would see how wrong you are in thinking their needs are regarded as even being equal.

KalaLaka · 03/04/2018 12:30

I don't for one second believe that kids (SN or not) should be shut away, but I'm a lot more tolerant if I see a parent at least attempting to deal with an episode instead of ignoring it and expecting everyone else to do the same

Sometimes, pretending to ignore a meltdown can be a pretty good strategy to calm the child down.

Unless you have a child with this type of behaviour, you may not really understand the daily challenges. I would have been a judgey ignorant onlooker before I had my daughter, I'm afraid to say.

Sirzy · 03/04/2018 12:33

Even if ignoring is a tactic that generally works well for your child you still need to bare in mind the environment you are in and the impact that could have on others. Sometimes you need to change tactic depending on location to an extent even if that’s moving the child somewhere and then continuing to ignore.

MsMalcontent · 03/04/2018 12:33

That's local to me. Can someone PM me the name of the business? I think I might know of it. And that's without reading the review.

tinkerbellax · 03/04/2018 12:34

I work in a cafe sort of environment and believe me when a child kicks off and starts screaming it is really awful. It's not the child or the parents fault though, it's just part of life.

We had a very large family with a couple of toddlers come in yesterday for two hours and they screamed and cried non-stop.

It was horrible and then other customers were kicking off on myself and my colleagues.

KalaLaka · 03/04/2018 12:37

sometimes you need to change tactic

I don't think any parent of a child with challenging behaviour needs to be told this. I'm sure we go through every tactic in the book throughout the course of a day and it's exhausting. If people could just be a bit more tolerant of other people, that would also help.

I do bear the situation in mind, but I also have to stay calm, not lose my temper, look after other children and myself. Sometimes people just have to put up with a bit of crying.