To be devastated at the demise of the Labour Party, and to wonder how anyone can look at themselves in the mirror if they vote for Corbyn now?

[snowagain]

Just that really.

Been a Labour supporter all my life, til the last election. Because hell will freeze over before I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

I am literally devastated at the demise of the Labour party, that has been systematically destroyed from the inside out, by Corbyn and his cronies, and by Corbyn's pathetic behaviour. From his denial of bad behaviour from his party, to the way he shuts down anyone who challenges him. (Including reporters, and his own people ..... if they don't agree with everything he says, he sacks them.)

In the last election, for the first time ever in my life, I was unable to vote, because I am not voting for Conservatives. (Even so, if I HAD to vote by law, I would vote for Conservatives before I would vote for Labour.)

The Labour party is dying a slow and painful death, and is a laughing stock. First of all we have the standing joke that is Corbyn, with his bizarre 'extreme-left' bollocks, and refusing to answer any questions that don't suit him, .......'Mr Corbyn what about the antisemitism in in your party?' 'YES it is a nice day isn't it? Thank you, goodbye!' Fucking twit!

And then we have his ludicrous and laughable cronies... Diane 'can't count for toffee' Abbott, Monroe 'bigoted ranty' Bergdorf, and now Eddie fucking Izzard in a dress.

Even people I know who were obsessive Corbynites a year or so ago, are cringing with embarrassment now, as he turns the party into more of a laughing stock every day. And as I said in the thread title, how can anyone POSSIBLY support him and the Labour party now?

That's it really. I am literally so gutted at the demise of my party.

Until Corbyn fucks off and takes his cronies with him, Labour is dead to me. And I know a LOT of people who think the same!

R.I.P. The Labour Party. 😢😢😢

I’ve left the Labour Party over Self ID.

I was already running out of steam on other issues before that, though - mainly the way Momentum have poisoned my CLP and turned what was a marginal seat with fantastic local activism in to a complete no-hope-in-hell-for-Labour seat and a local party full of shouty, aggressive hard Left men (and their handmaidens!).

They just can’t see how divisive their attitude is within their own party, let alone how it translates on the doorsteps.

It’s awful. I feel really unnerved by it all.

I can’t see a way forward for me at the moment. I’ll be spoiling my vote in local elections over Self ID (if I have to hear Dawn Butlers frankly THICK mumblings on equality one more time I might scream!)...no idea about the next GE. I’m a lifelong Lab voter, from a family of Lab voters and activists. I might have left Labour, but it feels like constructive dismissal....

If you think being electable is acting like a Tory, you have no business in party politics.
The Labour Party needs to get elected. That means claiming the middle ground and pushing the Tories to the right.

Do you think David Milliband will ever return? I did like Ed but think if we’d chosen his brother, Labour would be in power now. Far leftism does not win elections.

I have always thought this too.

As soon as I hear people acting insulted for making a party electable and blaming the press I just cringe.

I don’t think either milliband will be back. Sadly

I remember being on coach coming back from a protest - everyone a bit rowdy and lots of debate going on - when a young member - about 19 was set upon by 4 men because she had a Star Of David necklace (on account of being Jewish) - they demanded she condemn Israel and starting shouting at her until she was in tears - I managed to get in between (aged 17 5ft nothing) and get them to fuck off

typical of the hard left of the 80's - and I feel it's an issue again

debate and disagreement is NOT a threat - stop shutting it down

Not one single person I know in that age group voted for Corbyn, in fact he is pretty much loathed by this age group

Well,...I and most of my friends are in this age group. We support Corbyn.
Some of the people I know in their 70s are activists...all voted remain.
Most of us have lived long enough to know that life is going to pretty shit for most people under a Tory government. Most of us remember when people cared about other people. We've seen this change massively over many years.

I’ve also left over self id and the sacking of Owen smith. Also the lily Madigan fiasco.
Labour is trying to be so desperately right on it’s painful.

Which is typical of the left who support Corbyn. They support left wing causes such as self ID without really understanding the implications.

my mum is 72 and loves him

I'm 47 and increasingly disillusioned

Thanks for helping me decide who to vote for.

@BertandRussell.

I am not a Tory.

I have no idea how Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson became a Conservative Party MP, let alone Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, although he was popular when he was Mayor of London.

Multiligual, well educated and socially liberal, Johnson's buffoon persona hides a fairly sharp intellect.

Rather more trivial but I remember getting a book nicked by a middle class SWP guy sat next to me on a coach after I fell asleep.
Looking back really it was a seminal event in my political consciousness raising!

So much low level shitty behaviour I saw at that time.

@mrskeats

Labour is trying to be so desperately 'right on' it’s painful.

I know right.

It makes me cringe.

I feel embarrassed for them, and feel pity for anyone deluded enough to vote for Corbyn.

If you think being electable is acting like a Tory, you have no business in party politics.
The Labour Party needs to get elected. That means claiming the middle ground and pushing the Tories to the right.

This. This a thousand times, this. Thank you.

you can have all the ideas and promises in the world but without power they mean fuck all

being eletable is kind of important

Regrettably I have to go now. Shan't be back til much later this evening..

Great debate though.

Thanks everyone.

There is no reasoned argument.

"Labour this", "Tory that" insults are putting people off politics and political parties.

There is more to politics than slogans.

Ah but being ekectable isn’t the point. Corbyn doesn’t want to be elected because he doesn’t give a rats ass about running the country. He’s s career protester.

Gottsg

Yep most of us still do care about other people including Jewish people and women.

Shame labour don’t seem to

the right have been phenomenally successful in characterising labour under corbyn as far/extreme left and avoiding being called out as extreme right - that is what they are - the depth of cuts to the state, destruction of welfare and torture of the NHS would not have been considered even by thatcher.
If you've time read Harold Wilson's 74 manifesto, www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab74oct.htm, how it echoes where we are today, then remember what happened - the subsequent decade of squandering North Sea oil revenue, the destruction of industry and the rise of the money men.

I've had so many conversations recently in which people say they are politically homeless, whether they've been Labour or Conservative supporters, and that they despair at the quality of our politicians. There are a lot of floating votes out there.

The trouble is for those saying they would vote for a party led by Yvette Cooper or Andy Burnham, I am no longer sure I even have that option. I have voted Labour all my life, but in my view the centre left are enabling the far left by their inaction. Those centre left mps are in the eye of the storm, they are watching what is happening to the party and doing nothing. I have been waiting and hoping for someone to make a move and split the party. But for me I think they have left it too late. How dare they allow this to happen within the Labour party.

I'm sorry, but lurching back and forth left, right and left is going to do this country no good.

Centrist and sensible is what a lot of voters are looking for.

If a transparently democratic new party showed up, with centrist views, a coherent manifesto and a plan for Brexit that didn't involve lowering standards and rolling over to the financial might of foreign powers, they'd get a hearing.....

How does one win the "respect" of Murdoch?

You get the respect of voters and the general public and then Murdoch realises he needs to sell papers and so changes his tune. Murdoch didn't support Blair until it looked inevitable that he'd get into power. Then he backed Labour because he wanted to sell newspapers.

If there were so many people backing Corbyn, Murdoch's papers would back him too cos he's a businessman first and foremost and it's all about money.

I think they believe that should they try to split the party the assets and "brand" ( and majority of union support?)would remain in the hands of the current leadership. May be wrong on that but iirc it was talked about a while back.

The memory of the sdp split and how it eventually petered out may also be on the minds of centrist MPs.