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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AMBU to think that being a vegan doesn't automatically give you the mo

106 replies

scepticalNC · 30/03/2018 14:16

NC for this as friend knows I'm on here.
A close friend of mine is a vegan, let's call her VF. I love her and she's wonderful. But shes become very preachy about veganism and it's getting to me. It really is constant. It seems like nothing else matters - non-vegans are ruining the planet. She has said she is depressed because those around her (presumably me) don't see the damage they are doing to the planet. From what I understand, for her it's more about the environment than about animal welfare.
I have no problem with veganism- but VF drives everywhere, goes on probably on average of 4 long haul holidays per year and has a dog that she feeds meat. All of these things have an environmental impact too.
We have a car but it gets used maybe once a month- we walk, cycle or sometimes use public transport. We have maybe 1 or 2 holidays a year and very occasionally fly longhaul. We buy local and seasonal. We don't eat meat often but when we do we buy very high welfare meat. We do however eat a fair amount of seafood. We probably eat meat/seafood free meals about 50% of the week. We do consume a lot of milk a lot but we have a toddler. (She was pretty harsh when I switched DC from breast milk to cows milk at 1 year old, not to mention that fact that having DC is hugely damaging to the planet).
Our milk is from a local organic dairy, is delivered in glass bottles which are reusable. I think the milk travels less than 10 miles. Her almond milk is sold in non recyclable cartons, is made from almonds that are grown in and then flown all the way from California, where they have frequent water shortages.
I'm not sure I can agree that drinking almond milk is saving the planet here!
She will eat foods containing palm oil but not eggs. We get a lot of our eggs from my FIL who has chickens. He spends a lot of time keeping the chickens safe - I know a lot of people with chickens and they regularly get killed by foxes. They give FIL eggs and he keeps them fed and safe from the foxes - seems like a mutually beneficial relationship to me? If they were "liberated" they would be dead in hours. How is eating their eggs worse than eating palm oil which is having huge environmental impacts? (I'm not denying that lots of hens are kept in awful conditions - and I wouldn't buy their eggs). We all make our own judgements about what we think is wrong or right on these types of things - I don't believe there is an objectively right or wrong answer. But she does. Obviously there are lots of issues at play here but I feel like she thinks being vegan gives people the right to constantly criticise others. It's more complicated than that.
VF recently made some comments about someone we know who is on a very low income, and eats a load of cheap processed food (evident as she posts pics of her weekly shop and almost every meal her an her family eat on SM). VF was criticising her, saying she doesn't care about the planet etc. I pointed out that she was a single mum and on a very low income which makes things hard food wise and pointed out that she did not own a car and has never even left the country, so was doing her bit for the planet in her own way.

I would never dream of preaching to anyone about lifestyle, but it's mostly what VF talks about these days I feel like it's reached the point where I want to point out that it's not all as black and white as she believes it to be. I'm sure if I do she will see it as a personal attack on her ideology (whereas when she criticises my way of life that's fine because I'm murdering the planet).
AMBU?

OP posts:
Cataline · 30/03/2018 14:19

I'm a veggie but eat (mostly) vegan but I bloody hate angry, preachy vegans!
They do nothing for their cause and just get people's backs up.
Tell her that she's absolutely entitled to her opinion but you already know how she feels and you don't need to hear it every time.
Perhaps point out that her banging on about it is destroying your friendship too and could she consider backing off with the criticism?

araiwa · 30/03/2018 14:21

Try and get her to join an mlm everytime she starts going on about it

Oysterbabe · 30/03/2018 14:21

You're overthinking it, I'd just tell her to fuck off.

specialsubject · 30/03/2018 14:23

jettison as a stupid bore with zero critical thinking skills.

keeping pets is VERY environmentally unfriendly, wasting good food on useless mouths that will never get eaten. I don't think dogs can be veggie (cats certainly can't).

unless of course she is using the dogshit to get her B12 - veganism without supplementation, fortification or defecation is not compatible with human life.

there you go, two easy ways to get rid of her!

AfterSchoolWorry · 30/03/2018 14:23

Why do you entertain this eejit.

Eggzandbacon · 30/03/2018 14:24

I have 2 vegan friends:
One is an environmentalist, grows a huge amount of her own food, makes sure everything she does has as limited impact as possibly. She keeps chickens and has eggs in her diet (on basis she loves the chickens and they would go to waste otherwise).
One lives off a heavily processed vegan diet, drives everywhere, uses lots of packaging, lots of her food travels huge distance. She believes we could liberate all farm animals and that wouldn’t be an issue for anyone. Her diet is also appalling, all carbs and fake meat.
Guess which one is preachy and which one isn’t!

ShortandAnnoying · 30/03/2018 14:35

I have a lot more sympathy for vegans who do it for animal welfare reasons. But even they don't have the right to get preachy, it's a complex moral issue.
Personally I think animals can be part of an environmentally friendly system of farming if it's done right. Of course we can't include factory farming in that and we'd all need to eat a lot less meat and animal products. But don't tell me the answer is to eat soya and nuts and plough up all the grassland to plant arable crops.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 30/03/2018 14:37

Egg you have one vegan friend and I’m guessing she is the preachy one

Have a few vegan friends one loves to rant about how we are destroying the world by being meat eaters especially passionate about the subject after a few lines of of coke Grin

RoadToRivendell · 30/03/2018 14:37

I have a lot more sympathy for vegans who do it for animal welfare reasons. But even they don't have the right to get preachy, it's a complex moral issue.

Why? Do you mean as opposed to environmental issues?

Meat is a major accelerant in the planet's destruction. I'm a carnivore and I hate myself for it!

Bluelady · 30/03/2018 14:42

My son's an eco warrior. Vegan, won't wear leather or wool, doesn't drive, won't fly. But he's completely unpreachy and operates on the live and let live principle. He's my kind of vegan.

cocobilly · 30/03/2018 14:46

I’m a vegan and in my experience, preaching to people about what they are doing wrong seldom results in them doing things your way! Your friend sounds exhausting... for me and other vegans I know, becoming a vegan was a journey, and one which we began because we felt strongly about it ourselves, and not because someone was lecturing us about it!

TheScottishPlay · 30/03/2018 14:46

I'm vegetarian too. I'm having more and more vegan days but not preachy. I tell people honestly why IF they ask.
Healthwise, my vegan days can be full of crumpets, jam, cake, crisps, chips and sweets. Vegan but not healthy!

theredjellybean · 30/03/2018 14:48

OP ...why dont you engage your friend in debate and ask her how exactly her almond milk is better for the planet than your cows milk...

LockedOutOfMN · 30/03/2018 14:52

The first rule of vegan club is that you tell everyone about vegan club.

The second rule of vegan club is that you tell everyone about vegan club.

ShortandAnnoying · 30/03/2018 14:52

No I think the environmental issue is that you can eat some meat in an environmentally friendly manner. So you can't go round saying all non vegans are killing the planet, especially while not being completely environmentally friendly in other ways yourself.
I suppose it is complex in how much meat and what kind people could eat but it's not a moral issue to eat it at all if it's the right kind and amount .
The animal welfare issue is complex because people will argue over whether if you keep an animal in a kind way and kill it in such a way it doesn't have any suffering then it's not a cruel thing to do, and may actually benefit the animal species. Of course that is an over simple argument but as I say it's a complex issue. What about the vegan mentioned above who will eat eggs provided they come from her pet chickens. Or would it be cruel to eat a highly intelligent animal, but not a very simple one like a shellfish. If something clearly wants to survive is it cruel to kill it even if it doesn't understand or feel pain? If so does that mean it's cruel to eat plants?

LockedOutOfMN · 30/03/2018 14:53

I'd tell her you're worried her vegan diet doesn't have enough protein in. Grin

Roussette · 30/03/2018 14:54

God she sounds tedious, I just could not be around it, I really couldn't.

I would give her one last chance by saying.. if you carry on preaching to me about the planet, what I eat, veganism blah blah, our friendship is on very rocky ground and might not survive. Let's reset the whole thing, let's agree not to talk on this subject and let's enjoy our friendship.

If this doesn't work, I'd drop her like a hot potato

TheJoyOfSox · 30/03/2018 14:55

I’m not vegan, but I am vegetarian , I also refuse to buy anything with palm oil as an ingredient (even when it says ethically sourced) so no Linda McCartney’s veggie sausages in this house, no chocolate, no biscuits, no single use plastics, so that means no yoghurt, the majority of quorn foodstuffs come in plastic trays so no quorn, no bottles of water and as I don’t drink tap water I only drink sparkling water it’s really hard to find sparkling water in glass.

But do you know what? It’s not my place to judge people who decide that plastics, palm oils and meat as food is ok for them.
Tell your friend, that whilst you admire her commitment and her ethos, you’re finding her preaching to be off putting and you value her friendship, but she really is pushing you to the limits of your patience.
If she continues, you need to get up and walk away, physically move yourself out of earshot. If she continues after you have told her, then maybe she’s not a great friend.

SpringNowPlease2018 · 30/03/2018 14:57

excuse my ignorance but what is "mo" please?

cocobilly · 30/03/2018 14:57

@lockedoutofmn we are not all like this you know :P

scepticalNC · 30/03/2018 14:59

@araiwa yes great idea! MLM mummy-boss life here I come.

@ShortandAnnoying I totally agree.

IMO there's nothing wrong with having grazing cows on land. It means the land gets left to grow with no herbicides or pesticides and it gets very well fertilised by all the wonderful cow shite.
What's the alternative? The land gets used for crops and gets covered in herbicides and pesticides and chemical fertilisers? Or the land gets used for something else like a nice road or a out of town shopping centre?
A lot of the "facts" and stats about environmental impact are based on intensive farming in the USA.
I feel worried that if all the people who care about animal welfare go vegan then the good farmers who really care about welfare and the environment will go out of business and all that will be left will be the shit intensively farmed chickens etc.

OP posts:
scepticalNC · 30/03/2018 15:01

@SpringNowPlease2018 sorry it means nothing- I posted too soon and hadn't finished the title. Was going to right moral superiority or something I think!

OP posts:
LockedOutOfMN · 30/03/2018 15:02

I know cocobilly. Smile I'm sure OP's friend would be annoying regardless of whether she was vegan.

SpringNowPlease2018 · 30/03/2018 15:02

OP - oh right
I haven't missed a new supercool abbreviation/urban slang thing Grin

whichwayisitnow · 30/03/2018 15:04

She will eat foods containing palm oil

Well if she is so concerned about the damage other people are doing to the planet, but uses palm oil products herself, she's either deluded or an almighty hypocrite.

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